...going into the season. That's one of the worst rosters in the NFL.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/6/29/15881560/bengals-offensive-line-team-ranked-among-nfl-worst-rosters

We have 5 guys who start that are ranked as REALLY BAD.

Another interesting tidbit was John Ross had a score of 80.3 based on his final year of college. Billings, Jackson, Lawson, and Willis all ranked considerably higher. That seems to solidify the point that Ross was drafted higher based on his speed rather than his on field play.

But but Ced is at his "natural" posistion!!!!

(09-11-2017, 01:42 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: But but Ced is at his "natural" posistion!!!!

His natural position appears to be on his back, or helping Dalton get up off the ground.

The sad fact of the matter is that this roster is EXTREMELY talented. They just have major holes at 2 very important positions - LT and C.

I don't get why a C isn't that important to some of these GMs. It seems like a great one can make every one else on the line better.

(09-11-2017, 01:59 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The sad fact of the matter is that this roster is EXTREMELY talented.  They just have major holes at 2 very important positions - LT and C.

I don't get why a C isn't that important to some of these GMs.  It seems like a great one can make every one else on the line better.

Eh...it's not that talented. 4 of our offensive lineman would be backups on a playoff team.

MJ is bad. Billings/Sims aren't that good at DT. Vigil and Minter are average to below average.

Dennard is horrible.

Williams and Iloka aren't good in pass coverage.

The roster has A LOT of flaws.

We have nice shiny skill players at WR and RB making you think we're talented. Look past that.

(09-11-2017, 01:59 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The sad fact of the matter is that this roster is EXTREMELY talented.  They just have major holes at 2 very important positions - LT and C.

I don't get why a C isn't that important to some of these GMs.  It seems like a great one can make every one else on the line better.

I agree with that. Two of the worst starters in the league (arguably in league history) at two of the most important spots on the offensive line. Asinine decision by our staff to roll with these scrubs who would be lucky to make the practice squad of any other team.

As the article states, there are 6 players who are brimming with talent that they did not consider in the ranking due to the fact that they're rookies or were injured in their rookie year last year (Ross, Mixon, Willis, Lawson, Billings, Jackson).

I am confident in the talent level of the team.

But none of that really matters if your QB doesn't have time to throw, your Oline can't open holes for your RBs and your WRs can't make up the difference with quick routes that generate separation off the snap.

Our defense looks really strong though and will only get better when Burfict returns.

We still have an outside chance at making the playoffs if 1. Ogbuehi drastically improves (he won't) or 2. Ogbuehi is replaced with someone who is merely "serviceable" I.E. gives up a pressure/sack only half the time, rather than every single snap.

Og isn't the only issue. We have 4 lineman who aren't starters. Fisher doesn't look good. Hopkins is now hurt and it looks severe.

Note: In the 2nd half of that game, we couldn't stop the run. We knew it was coming too. That's an issue.

(09-11-2017, 01:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: ...going into the season. That's one of the worst rosters in the NFL.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/6/29/15881560/bengals-offensive-line-team-ranked-among-nfl-worst-rosters

We have 5 guys who start that are ranked as REALLY BAD.

Another interesting tidbit was John Ross had a score of 80.3 based on his final year of college. Billings, Jackson, Lawson, and Willis all ranked considerably higher. That seems to solidify the point that Ross was drafted higher based on his speed rather than his on field play.

So in a bank handed way, you are saying ML over achieves given the poor talent he receives from Katie and Tobin????

(09-11-2017, 02:06 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: As the article states, there are 6 players who are brimming with talent that they did not consider in the ranking due to the fact that they're rookies or were injured in their rookie year last year (Ross, Mixon, Willis, Lawson, Billings, Jackson).

I am confident in the talent level of the team.

But none of that really matters if your QB doesn't have time to throw, your Oline can't open holes for your RBs and your WRs can't make up the difference with quick routes that generate separation off the snap.

Our defense looks really strong though and will only get better when Burfict returns.

We still have an outside chance at making the playoffs if 1. Ogbuehi drastically improves (he won't) or 2. Ogbuehi is replaced with someone who is merely "serviceable" I.E. gives up a pressure/sack only half the time, rather than every single snap.

Maybe we could swing a trade for Duane Brown who is holding out in Houston

(09-11-2017, 02:17 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So in a bank handed way, you are saying ML over achieves given the poor talent he receives from Katie and Tobin????

We've had a great roster for a couple years that underachieved by losing in the playoffs. The past 2 seasons, due to free agent losses...we haven't.

Last year we won 6.5 games.

3 years ago we had a Top 3-5 NFL Roster and lost a playoff game. That's underachieving.

(09-11-2017, 02:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Og isn't the only issue. We have 4 lineman who aren't starters. Fisher doesn't look good. Hopkins is now hurt and it looks severe.

Note: In the 2nd half of that game, we couldn't stop the run. We knew it was coming too. That's an issue.

To be fair, that 2nd half drive was aided by about 2 to 3 bullshit penalties that sustained the drive long past what it deserved.

1. A non-penalty against Billings for 15 yards on a first down stop for no gain
2. A defensive pass interference that literally didn't exist on the replay on a 3rd and 6 stop
3. A defensive holding that was, if I recall correctly, shaky at best on 3rd and 2 stop

The Bengals offense turning it over 5 times to the tune of a 34-26 minute disadvantage also did not help.

And even then, the Ravens had 6 drives in the second half. 
3 were 3 and outs
1 was a 4 play drive that, outside of the first play that went for a first down, was a 3 and out
1 that ended in an interception after 2 plays

If those penalties aren't called for no real reason, that is 6 wildly successful defensive efforts. Even still, it is 5 successes out of 6.

The Defense did everything they possibly could to give the Bengals a chance in the second half and the offense squandered it at every turn.

And that's after the Bengals offense turned 3 redzone trips into 0 points as well as handing the Ravens a free red zone trip on the, what, 5 yard line due to a ridiculous play where no one bothered looking for the ball or at least tackling the guy who clearly knew where the ball was coming down from the sky haha.

Even a field goal in each of those trips makes it a game where Baltimore would have actually had to play the game rather than just waste time for 30 straight game minutes.

If the Ravens had to actually play offense, imagine how much better our defense would have done.

They got 1 interception, 4 pass deflections, 3 QB hits and a sack on 18 drop backs by Flacco. Imagine if he had to throw it even 30 times. 

Defense wins championships.

But they still need the offense to do one or two things, like convert the red zone trips they're gifted into some kind of points and don't punt it when you're down 3 possessions in the final 10 minutes of the game with a convertible 4th and 5 on the opponent's side of the field!

We don't have a championship defense. We may have a Top 10-15 defense.

I never said we did. Just pointing out that you were attributing something to our defense that was not true.

(09-11-2017, 02:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Og isn't the only issue. We have 4 lineman who aren't starters. Fisher doesn't look good. Hopkins is now hurt and it looks severe.

Note: In the 2nd half of that game, we couldn't stop the run. We knew it was coming too. That's an issue.

Og id the biggest hurdle this team needs to overcome to correct this ship.

If Suggs doesn't bat some balls and force a sack fumble who knows what the outcome is.

(09-11-2017, 02:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Eh...it's not that talented. 4 of our offensive lineman would be backups on a playoff team.

MJ is bad. Billings/Sims aren't that good at DT. Vigil and Minter are average to below average.

Dennard is horrible.

Williams and Iloka aren't good in pass coverage.

The roster has A LOT of flaws.

We have nice shiny skill players at WR and RB making you think we're talented. Look past that.

Disagree.

Think about this:  how many teams have players that are among the best in the NFL at their positions?

The Bengals have several:
Atkins
Burtict
AJ Green
Dunlap
Eifert

They also have a ton of guys that are very good players:
Boling
Iloka
Pac-Man
Dre

Couple those with some very good young talent:
Boyd
Mixon
Ross
Willis
Lawson

You can't tell me that if this team was coached by a great coach that they wouldn't have been in a super bowl by now.  It's an easy fix for the right guy.  Fix the O-line and this team is an immediate contender again.


You can't tell 

(09-11-2017, 02:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We don't have a championship defense. We may have a Top 10-15 defense.

Depends on your definition, but this defense is easily good enough to win a title.

(09-11-2017, 03:12 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Disagree.

Think about this:  how many teams have players that are among the best in the NFL at their positions?

The Bengals have several:
Atkins
Burtict
AJ Green
Dunlap
Eifert

They also have a ton of guys that are very good players:
Boling
Iloka
Pac-Man
Dre

Couple those with some very good young talent:
Boyd
Mixon
Ross
Willis
Lawson

You can't tell me that if this team was coached by a great coach that they wouldn't have been in a super bowl by now.  It's an easy fix for the right guy.  Fix the O-line and this team is an immediate contender again.


You can't tell 

I can. We have 1 offensive lineman that would start on a playoff team.

MJ isn't a starter. Pacman is getting older and not a good starter any more. Billings/Sims are not starter quality. Iloka and Williams struggle against the pass. The secondary misses Nelson A LOT. Vigil/Minter are borderline starters.

Willis and Lawson have talent and potential...but they did nothing in Game 1. Ross didn't play. It may be a season or two before they make an impact IF ever. Most of the teams in the NFL have young guys like these.

(09-11-2017, 03:13 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Depends on your definition, but this defense is easily good enough to win a title.

You'd need a spectacular offense to win a title with this defense.

It has melted down in our recent playoff losses. It wilts in big games. It's a slightly above average defense at this point with only 2 guys that can pass rush. Maybe Lawson and Willis develop into other rushers with time.

(09-11-2017, 03:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I can. We have 1 offensive lineman that would start on a playoff team.

MJ isn't a starter. Pacman is getting older and not a good starter any more. Billings/Sims are not starter quality. Iloka and Williams struggle against the pass. The secondary misses Nelson A LOT. Vigil/Minter are borderline starters.

Willis and Lawson have talent and potential...but they did nothing in Game 1. Ross didn't play. It may be a season or two before they make an impact IF ever. Most of the teams in the NFL have young guys like these.

That's why I said that if you fix the O-line, this team is set again.

You can focus on the guys that need replaced, but thats easier to do than find studs.  This team has several.