(09-11-2017, 02:06 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Dalton was the worst player on the field Sunday without a doubt. yes the coaches suck. the officials  weren't friendly the line underwhelmed. the defense hung in there. Anybody doesn't realize this is blind. His play cost us a W no doubt. He has a 1 to 3 of these a season 6 to 7 above average games and 1 to 3 elite ones.  I'm almost at the point wanting him replaced you never know when awful Andy is going to rear his ugly head. He could have the 72 dolphins behind him if awful Andy shows up team has no chance to win.

He threw 4 pics against the Ravens before and won......he was the worst Sunday, for sure, but unfortunately, neither the staff, nor his line can bail him out these days....

(09-11-2017, 01:01 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: If it doesn't fix the problem, what's the point in doing it? And who's to say they're not held accountable? And what makes you think they're not constructive behind closed doors? I'm not trying to defend Marv, just the scenario. I've never blamed my players for playing badly. I've tried to find ways to fix the problem. And not once did saying "you guys suck" to all the parents, other coaches, etc work. 

Who said he had to make personal attacks, now you are just making crap up. ML could have easily said, our OL blew assignments and have to get better versus "I do not know which we all know is a flat out lie!

The Dalton "bashers" have statistical support to buttress their claims.

"Historically bad."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20667616/cincinnati-bengals-qb-andy-dalton-was-historically-bad-week-1

Andy Played awful but the worst of it was the o-line and zampese. They were keyed in on the fact we were going to throw fast and short. We kept going to the middle of the field and stuff just got tipped and was shut down by the linebackers. Where were the quick outs to the wide receivers? Tight end screens? Wide receiver screens? ANYTHING outside the numbers. Just f'n terrible.

(09-10-2017, 07:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I thought I saw where Jax had 10 sacks today. 

Speaking of Jax, their new rookie OT Cam Robinson had a fine debut allowing zero sacks while logging 39 snaps(second on team) 

against JJ Watt and Clowney.  

(09-10-2017, 11:18 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: The pass to Jimmy Smith was just terrible...absolutely terrible but as bad as everything was, the complete and utter garbage of a throw to Cody Core not once...but twice as he is running wide open through the secondary was sickening. There is no excuse for missing either of those throws, and that is 14 points that were taken off the board by Andy Dalton.

I'd say 21. The first one to AJ, it's not like the LB came out of nowhere. He was dropping back into coverage. Should have been right in Dalton's sight line.

(09-11-2017, 02:06 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Dalton was the worst player on the field Sunday without a doubt. yes the coaches suck. the officials  weren't friendly the line underwhelmed. the defense hung in there. Anybody doesn't realize this is blind. His play cost us a W no doubt. He has a 1 to 3 of these a season 6 to 7 above average games and 1 to 3 elite ones.  I'm almost at the point wanting him replaced you never know when awful Andy is going to rear his ugly head. He could have the 72 dolphins behind him if awful Andy shows up team has no chance to win.

He blew !

But was not even close to the worse player on the field. 

That goes to entire OL hands down. 

(09-11-2017, 01:49 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Hopefully this time the fans will understand Dalton is not a "quitter"... Hell if I had to play for Marvin Lewis as long as he has I'd have reached my breaking point years ago. So, major props to Dalton for hanging in there... But I won't fault him one bit when the time comes for him to want out. 

I think it definitely changes the way people will view Palmer if Dalton and or Green leaves this team. Hopefully it changes the way people look at Dillon as well.

Palmer and Dillon didn't quit on the fans. They quit on the owner and coaches, and if it wasn't for the fact that I grew up here in Cincy and learned to love this team as a kid, I'd quit on Marvin and Mike too....sadly, I don't have that luxury but I won't blame any player who gets tired of the losing and being unprepared and being so ***** cheap on everything.

(09-11-2017, 01:43 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Carson Palmer 2.0 in the making here... He's going to catch enough heat from the fans, mixed with zero support from that clown on the sidelines clapping his hands and he is going to want out of here. 

 Andy has already endured this hate from 2012- now.
Hes getting the Kenny Anderson treatment every year when it comes to the 2nd string QB.


Carson Palmer only really caught it the last year or 2 of his career here.



Andy has been in the full blown hate cycle pretty much since year 2 besides winning 9 or more games a year his first 5 years.  not to mention the unprecedented back to back winning seasons and playoff births.

Carson no where near the accolades but golden arm and the first to flip the script makes him more burned into the minds of the casual Bengal fan.

Plus cool hair cut or not some people just hate red heads I guess.

(09-11-2017, 06:40 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: He's a panicked, weak arm loser

He has a weak arm

I love when people say this about Dalton. This just shows that the poster clearly knows nothing about quarterbacking in the NFL and, as such, there opinions on Dalton are meaningless.

(09-11-2017, 06:40 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: Even if they win this week, and dalton has a perfect qb rating, he's proven to be a massive liability and a below avg NFL qb

A massive liablitiy? Yeah, he's only won more games than he's lossed as the QB for the Bengals, but somehow, he's still a MASSIVE liability.

(09-11-2017, 06:40 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: He can't be counted on

Prior to last season (and I only say that because I have not seen updated numbers on this), Dalton was one of the league leaders in game winning drives since his rookie year. Yeah, he can't be counted on.

(09-11-2017, 06:40 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: He makes awful decisions 

And, yet, he still has more TDs than INTs and has a couple Bengals QB records under his belt. That's pretty amazing for a guy to make awful decisions and yet rack up the stats that he does. 

(09-11-2017, 06:40 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: He is terrified and scared

Nope.

(09-11-2017, 06:40 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: Cannot react and create plays 

This is the closest you've come to something even resembling a fact. Yes, Dalton is not a playmaker in the vein of Roethlisberger or Newton. Neither are a majority of the QBs in the NFL. 

(09-11-2017, 06:40 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: He is mentally soft 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, we're back to you being completely wrong.

(09-11-2017, 06:40 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: Any pressure completely destroys a play

Not true, but one of Dalton's main weaknesses is how pressure does have too much of a negative impact on his play. Sometimes he feels pressure that's not there, too. However, it's not that "any pressure completely destroys a play."

(09-11-2017, 06:40 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: And he requires perfect execution to look competent 

Well, considering that he's looked MORE than competent more often than not, that's even more impressive that he's had perfect execution so often.

(09-11-2017, 06:40 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: Andy Dalton is perfect for the bengals and Cincy pro sports fans.  Our fans genuinely believe he's an elite, top 10 qb.

And which team do you root for whose fans believe Dalton to be elite? 'Cause you certainly aren't a Bengal fan.

(09-11-2017, 12:55 PM)Wyche Wrote: Damn I wish we had 22 AJ Greens

And you thought we had a bad OL now!

(09-11-2017, 02:27 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: The Dalton "bashers" have statistical support to buttress their claims.

"Historically bad."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20667616/cincinnati-bengals-qb-andy-dalton-was-historically-bad-week-1

Peyton Manning had worse. Guess he was a below average QB, too.

Plus, if your argument relies on ESPN's atrociously bad QBR stat, it's not a good argument.

(09-11-2017, 02:41 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'd say 21. The first one to AJ, it's not like the LB came out of nowhere. He was dropping back into coverage. Should have been right in Dalton's sight line.

To be fair, that LB made a heck of play. IIRC, he was reaching behind himself, stretching as far as he could to get a hand on the ball. I don't really put the blame on Dalton for that one. I say the defense just made a heck of a play. Now, the other 3, on the other hand ...

(09-11-2017, 02:06 AM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I'm guessing that there are probably 20 quarterbacks in the NFL right now that are better than AD on a consistent basis.

C'mon man. Here's Dalton's rankings by season in passer rating:

2016: 15th (despite getting pummeled)
2015: 2nd
2014: 25th
2013: 15th
2012: 13th (despite getting pummeled)
2011: 20th

Average ranking: 15th

Now you also have to consider that many QB's that rank better than Dalton in 1 or 2 years wind up being awful or falling completely out of the league. Guys like Josh Freeman, Kaepernick, Nick Foles, etc. Honestly, very few QBs have been "consistently" better than Dalton and certainly not 20. We're just taking 1 bad game and redefining his career with it.

Brady, Wilson and Palmer were all bad this week, but no one is tearing their careers down over 1 game. Here's a list of all-time single game INT leaders:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_single_game.htm

QB's with 6 INTs in a single game includes:

Peyton Manning
Brett Favre
Ryan Fitzpatrick last year (sacked 0 times)


QB's with 5 INTs includes:

Drew Brees
Matt Ryan
Matt Stafford
Tony Romo
Joe Flacco 
Russell Wilson
Eli Manning
Jay Cutler
Boomer Esiason (vs Patriots during SB season)
Pretty much every legend ever (Marino, Elway, Favre, Warner, Unitas, Tarkenton, Moon, Fouts, etc)

It happens. So why are we acting like it automatically shows that Dalton is a turd? I'd understand if Dalton had a habit of such games, but he doesn't. He has exactly 1 other 4 INT game in a career that spans 94 games. He has exactly 2 games (including this one) below a 52.2 rating since his rookie year. The 2.0 game and the 28.4 he posted yesterday. Nothing else even close. 

Apologies for the novel, but with all the emotion fueled responses, I figured it'd be nice to put things in proper perspective. Dalton is a good QB. Top 15 at least, based on history. He's not a superman that can overcome an offense in complete disarray, and yes...he's capable of shitting the bed...but most QBs are just as capable of looking just as bad. 

(09-11-2017, 07:58 AM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Worst QBR of any QB in 12 years.....Savage from Houston was 12x better and got benched at halftime....says a lot. Dalton needed to be benched on sheer principle. The O-line didn't help, but Dalton was a pile of turds yesterday.

QBR is a load of crap.

Last year, Fitzpatrick went 20-44-188-0-6 with a clean pocket (0 sacks). How was Dalton's performance worse than that? I know yesterday was awful, but there's been plenty of worse stat lines over the last 10 years. From guys that weren't sacked 5 times.

(09-11-2017, 03:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: C'mon man. Here's Dalton's rankings by season in passer rating:

2016: 15th (despite getting pummeled)
2015: 2nd
2014: 25th
2013: 15th
2012: 13th (despite getting pummeled)
2011: 20th

Average ranking: 15th

Now you also have to consider that many QB's that rank better than Dalton in 1 or 2 years wind up being awful or falling completely out of the league. Guys like Josh Freeman, Kaepernick, Nick Foles, etc. Honestly, very few QBs have been "consistently" better than Dalton and certainly not 20. We're just taking 1 bad game and redefining his career with it.

Brady, Wilson and Palmer were all bad this week, but no one is tearing their careers down over 1 game. Here's a list of all-time single game INT leaders:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_single_game.htm

QB's with 6 INTs in a single game includes:

Peyton Manning
Brett Favre
Ryan Fitzpatrick last year (sacked 0 times)


QB's with 5 INTs includes:

Drew Brees
Matt Ryan
Matt Stafford
Tony Romo
Joe Flacco 
Russell Wilson
Eli Manning
Jay Cutler
Boomer Esiason (vs Patriots during SB season)
Pretty much every legend ever (Marino, Elway, Favre, Warner, Unitas, Tarkenton, Moon, Fouts, etc)

It happens. So why are we acting like it automatically shows that Dalton is a turd? I'd understand if Dalton had a habit of such games, but he doesn't. He has exactly 1 other 4 INT game in a career that spans 94 games. He has exactly 2 games (including this one) below a 52.2 rating since his rookie year. The 2.0 game and the 28.4 he posted yesterday. Nothing else even close. 

Apologies for the novel, but with all the emotion fueled responses, I figured it'd be nice to put things in proper perspective. Dalton is a good QB. Top 15 at least, based on history. He's not a superman that can overcome an offense in complete disarray, and yes...he's capable of shitting the bed...but most QBs are just as capable of looking just as bad. 


QBR is a load of crap.

Last year, Fitzpatrick went 20-44-188-0-6 with a clean pocket (0 sacks). How was Dalton's performance worse than that? I know yesterday was awful, but there's been plenty of worse stat lines over the last 10 years. From guys that weren't sacked 5 times.

I can't do it on my work computer, but could someone please input a standing ovation gif for me? 

Thanks.

(09-11-2017, 04:07 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I can't do it on my work computer, but could someone please input a standing ovation gif for me? 

Thanks.

Thanks bud. I've been holding back because Dalton really did stink it up yesterday and he deserves some criticism for it...but using this game to revise history and say he's sucked his entire career? Or that 20 QBs are "consistently better"? C'mon on now guys. I agreed with much of that particular post, but I couldn't get past that statement. 

(09-11-2017, 04:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Thanks bud. I've been holding back because Dalton really did stink it up yesterday and he deserves some criticism for it...but using this game to revise history and say he's sucked his entire career? Or that 20 QBs are "consistently better"? C'mon on now guys. I agreed with much of that particular post, but I couldn't get past that statement. 

Yep. Dalton has been a good-to-great QB fore the last few years and he played like bantha poodoo yesterday. Yesterday's game doesn't erase every single positive thing he's done prior to yesterday. It's one of the main reasons I had to leave the game day thread yesterday. Dalton was playing like crap but people were using his play to make it seem like Ryan Leaf would be a better QB for us. 

$10 says these people were not Bengals fans during the years when guys like Klingler or Akili were our QB.

(09-11-2017, 02:13 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Who said he had to make personal attacks, now you are just making crap up. ML could have easily said, our OL blew assignments and have to get better versus "I do not know which we all know is a flat out lie!

Ok, let me try to articulate it a bit differently. If you made a mistake at work, would it be wise for your leader to blast you to the entire company? Or would a more fundamental approach be in order, not less than 1 hour after the game when you're prone to say something that's not particularly accurate?

(09-11-2017, 04:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yep. Dalton has been a good-to-great QB fore the last few years and he played like bantha poodoo yesterday. Yesterday's game doesn't erase every single positive thing he's done prior to yesterday. It's one of the main reasons I had to leave the game day thread yesterday. Dalton was playing like crap but people were using his play to make it seem like Ryan Leaf would be a better QB for us. 

$10 says these people were not Bengals fans during the years when guys like Klingler or Akili were our QB.

I'd throw $10 on that as well. Some don't know what a bad QB really looks like.

(09-11-2017, 04:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yep. Dalton has been a good-to-great QB fore the last few years and he played like bantha poodoo yesterday. Yesterday's game doesn't erase every single positive thing he's done prior to yesterday. It's one of the main reasons I had to leave the game day thread yesterday. Dalton was playing like crap but people were using his play to make it seem like Ryan Leaf would be a better QB for us. 

$10 says these people were not Bengals fans during the years when guys like Klingler or Akili were our QB.

Those names!!!!!