(09-15-2017, 01:11 PM)depthchart Wrote: Around one third of the League has trash QBs.

Around one third of the league has trash QBs.
The Jets may have traded for him plus many others.
Bottom line is that Dalton had Kirk Cousins type value a few months ago and all we heard was Kirk Cousins talk last spring.
Andy Dalton on the Open Market back last spring would have been Big News and multiple teams would have been bidding for him.
It would have been a decent haul in Draft picks, get Watson instead of Ross and try to Jump Start the roster over the coming years.

Just a Hindsight idea.  Any others or happy with the John Ross move still ?

I'm worried Ross is a bust. They really only used him for reverses in preseason.

They use him 1 play in his 1st game.

WHY would they not use him more in passing situations?

(09-15-2017, 01:20 PM)Au165 Wrote: Dalton's stats his first two games were better and he didn't even have a training camp because of the lockout. As I said, the kid looks like a deer in the head lights when he has to sit back and throw the ball. He can be a rookie, but I have seen rookies look far better in their rookie seasons out of the gate.

Fair enough.

Would you have taken any of the other QBs that went after our Ross pick last Draft & trade Dalton or still roll with Ross ?

or take some other position/player instead of Ross pick ?

(09-15-2017, 01:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm worried Ross is a bust. They really only used him for reverses in preseason.

They use him 1 play in his 1st game.

WHY would they not use him more in passing situations?

The Chiefs let their Rookie running back play after his Fumble against the Patriots in week 1.

They should have at least given Ross a few plays to get the bad memory of the fumble in the rear view mirror of his mind.

Ross may end up being a nice Toy to have but that may be it.

(09-15-2017, 12:42 PM)depthchart Wrote: Sam Bradford garnished a 1st round and 4th round pick when traded to the Vikings and Dalton's value exceeded that last Spring.
Dalton would have been valued at or near Kirk Cousin's value which means at least a 1st rounder one year and a 2nd round pick the following year with maybe a 4th rounder thrown in.

Sam Bradford has a few things that Dalton doesn't:

1.  He was the #1 overall pick in the draft.  Incredibly more talented then Andy.
2.  The Vikings were desperate.  They had to make a move.


Nobody was going to give up a high pick for Dalton.  Just wasn't happening.  Cousins value?  He didn't get traded, so there's no way that you can know what that would have been.

(09-15-2017, 01:43 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Sam Bradford has a few things that Dalton doesn't:

1.  He was the #1 overall pick in the draft.  Incredibly more talented then Andy.
2.  The Vikings were desperate.  They had to make a move.


Nobody was going to give up a high pick for Dalton.  Just wasn't happening.  Cousins value?  He didn't get traded, so there's no way that you can know what that would have been.

Around one third of the teams in the NFL have Trash QBs.
The Vikings were the only team bidding at the time they got Bradford.
There would have been multiple bidders for Andy Dalton on the open market last winter & spring.
Teams are starving for quarterbacks. Dalton put up MVP level numbers in 2015 and we would have gotten at least a Bradford level deal but likely more.

The Bengals turned down a 2nd round pick for AJ McCarron from the Jets and Browns according to reports. Totally unproven McCarron garnishing early 2nd round pick offers. Last spring, a Dalton trade gets a Bradford level deal or better easily in today's Market for NFL quarterbacks. No doubt...

Andy Dalton would not have got you a number 1 pick in any of the last 3 years. I encourage you to find to find a former pro coach or player and ask them. Don't talk to the homers that get paid by the bengals. Find someone who has never been associated with the Bengals and ask them. Dalton can't now and has never been able to make all the throws of a Bradford or even a Cousins. Ever wonder why you never see any outs or any 10 yard dig routes. It's not the lines fault. It's because Dalton can't make the throw. He doesn't have the arm strength or accuracy and never has. His strength was supposed to be that he was very smart and could make check downs and fire routes. That has even regressed. AJ MCcarron would get a 2nd because teams don't think he is the finished product and has upside still. Dalton does not.

I don't know if Watson is the answer. He has issues making deeper reads, just like Andy. Then again, he might get better in a few years. Regardless the real redo is you FRANCHISE TAG Whitworth. Would he like it? No maybe not, though getting paid $16 million dollars for one year wouldn't suck. And it is the pill you have to swallow if you wanted to have a chance at anything this season.

As for the rest, draft some linemen in the draft. Try out more who weren't drafted. Surely we can do better than this. Victor Salako is still just sitting on the Eagles practice squad (PFF called him the best preseason tackle). And what about doing what the Texans did -- just start more linemen (for us we'd add Guards in the middle) and play the power game?

(09-15-2017, 02:10 PM)depthchart Wrote: Around one third of the teams in the NFL have Trash QBs.
The Vikings were the only team bidding at the time they got Bradford.
There would have been multiple bidders for Andy Dalton on the open market last winter & spring.
Teams are starving for quarterbacks. Dalton put up MVP level numbers in 2015 and we would have gotten at least a Bradford level deal but likely more.

The Bengals turned down a 2nd round pick for AJ McCarron from the Jets and Browns according to reports. Totally unproven McCarron garnishing early 2nd round pick offers. Last spring, a Dalton trade gets a Bradford level deal or better easily in today's Market for NFL quarterbacks. No doubt...

Pure speculation.

Highly doubtful that teams would have been lining up for him.

(09-15-2017, 01:35 PM)depthchart Wrote: Fair enough.

Would you have taken any of the other QBs that went after our Ross pick last Draft & trade Dalton or still roll with Ross ?

or take some other position/player instead of Ross pick ?

I would have tried to trade back with one of the teams coming up for QBs. I personally didn't want a WR until the 2nd or 3rd.

(09-15-2017, 03:01 PM)Au165 Wrote: I would have tried to trade back with one of the teams coming up for QBs. I personally didn't want a WR until the 2nd or 3rd.

We tried, didn't seem to work out.

The only thing I will say in Ross' defense, is that I really think that if we had a good OC, he will make a huge difference,

(09-15-2017, 03:05 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: We tried, didn't seem to work out.

The only thing I will say in Ross' defense, is that I really think that if we had a good OC, he will make a huge difference,

I don't believe that. I think there was a deal to be made if we were willing to make it. There were too many trades in the 1st round not to believe we couldn't have slid back at least to some point. My guess is they didn't feel they got enough offered for it.

(09-15-2017, 03:00 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Pure speculation.

Highly doubtful that teams would have been lining up for him.

We clearly have a different view on just how quarterbacks are valued in the NFL these days.
32 teams and at least a third of them needing them.
A guy like Dalton, that many considered to be a Top 15 QB last spring, gets Bradford level offers or better at that time from more than one team with ease.
We are only talking a 1st and 4th round pick or better likely paid over two Drafts for a starting QB considered to be better than half of the QB's in the league at the time. Teams would have lined up... IMO

(09-15-2017, 03:26 PM)depthchart Wrote: We clearly have a different view on just how quarterbacks are valued in the NFL these days.
32 teams and at least a third of them needing them.
A guy like Dalton, that many considered to be a Top 15 QB last spring, gets Bradford level offers or better at that time from more than one team with ease.
We are only talking a 1st and 4th round pick or better likely paid over two Drafts for a starting QB considered to be better than half of the QB's in the league at the time. Teams would have lined up...  IMO

See I think McCarron is desireable in that what he can do is unknown so some team can project him to be great.

Dalton is known to be average to above average.

A draft pick could turn out to be great. It's like playing the lottery.

Watson is far from a sure thing. I'd like to see AJ get some time this season, especially if the debacle continues. Unfortunately, throwing him to the wolves behind that line, might tell us nothing, and damage him. Great situation.

Watson ***** sucks what game did you watch. He can't throw the ball to save his life. If Hopkins wasn't allowed to push off every single play he would have completed like 15 percent of his passes