(09-18-2017, 10:19 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: I'd agree with you if Ced didn't see a snap last year. He did, and he showed he doesn't have what it takes to be a starting OT in the NFL. He got beat by every imaginable move. Not sure why some people thought moving to the left side would suddenly fix all that.

Ced looks like the prototypical offensive lineman - Tall, lean, and muscular. He's also really athletic.

That said, he doesn't produce on the field. Even in college.

The Bengals fell in love with his looks...much like teams fall in love with guys combine numbers...like 40 yard dash times.

Wait?!?!? I'm seeing a trend here.

(09-18-2017, 10:47 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: There is no excuse for not re-signing Whit. He offered to play OG which would have allowed them to play Ogbuehi at LT and give them a viable insurance policy if he sucked at LT as much as he sucked at RT. Whit's deal is structured so that if he suddenly starts to suck the Rams can cut him with less than $6 million in dead money or $3 million for two seasons. His salary with bonus money during the first two years are less than what the Bengals offered him for one. If the Rams do cut him after this year the Rams will pay him his guaranteed money if $12.5 million. So basically, the Bengals didn't re-sign Whit because of a difference of $2.5 million in guaranteed money.

You can fail to plan or you can plan to fail, Mike Brown did both by gambling the season on what Ogbuehi had shown.

BTW, the Bengals are sitting on $12M in cap space.

Yep. And they'd have over $15 million in cap space if they didn't sign Andre Smith. That was a TERRIBLE signing in hindsight too. We needed a starter.

They had a plan to play Ced and Fisher and they stuck with it, that's fine it was a high value investment.

What makes no sense and I'd be amazed if anyone would try to argue that it was a good move is the fact that we put all of our eggs in that basket. Who's the backup plan for the tackles if/when they don't pan out? Nobody. Not even a promising prospect behind those 2.

Why wouldn't you try to cover your bases if you are seriously gunning for success? It seems like the Bengals attitude is "If it happens it happens if not there is always next year."

(09-18-2017, 11:16 AM)CageTheBengal Wrote: They had a plan to play Ced and Fisher and they stuck with it, that's fine it was a high value investment.

What makes no sense and I'd be amazed if anyone would try to argue against it is the fact that we put all of our eggs in that basket. Who's the backup plan for the tackles if/when they don't pan out? Nobody. Not even a promising prospect behind those 2.

Why wouldn't you try to cover your bases if you are seriously gunning for success? It seems like the Bengals attitude is "If it happens it happens if not there is always next year."

NOBODY has answered this yet either. Nobody. Can we get bfine answering this since he brought it up? Or it is to much to ask for a plan B? #shrugs

Honestly...IF Ced gets hurt what would they do? There is really no suitable backup.

Andre Smith? He's a RT.

(09-17-2017, 11:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Rams aren't close? Some 23 different teams have played in a Super Bowl since we've last won a playoff game. Statistically ANY team is closer than us.

Plus, the Rams actually make changes. They hired a new HC, etc.

The Rams haven't made the playoffs since '04, and Kronke has never put a playoff team on the field.  Gotta be in it if you're going to win it.  

I am still perplexed as to how Andre Smith is not starting on this offensive line. Makes ZERO sense.

(09-18-2017, 01:17 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Rams haven't made the playoffs since '04, and Kronke has never put a playoff team on the field.  Gotta be in it if you're going to win it.  

We haven't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

The Rams atleast make coaching changes. GM changes.

We still have largely the same management team in place. The same small scouting department. The same HC that's 0-7 in the playoffs.

I could argue that every other team in the NFL is closer to a Super Bowl than us...as is evidence by 23 different teams playing in a Super Bowl since we last won a single playoff game.

(09-18-2017, 12:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly...IF Ced gets hurt what would they do? There is really no suitable backup.

Andre Smith? He's a RT.

PA has a few tricks up his sleeve. Probably suit up and show the young pups how it's done!

Are folks suggesting we should have not been forthright with Whit after he years of service and offered him a deal that we could have gotten out of honoring?

Bengals offered him good money; LA offered him a longer deal. Let's see if they honor it.

(09-18-2017, 01:23 PM)740Bengal Wrote: I am still perplexed as to how Andre Smith is not starting on this offensive line.  Makes ZERO sense.

Must have been just that bad. He wasn't good for the Bengals in '15, and he was truly horrible for the Vikings in '16 before he got hurt. He's not the '12 Smith you might remember.

(09-18-2017, 05:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are folks suggesting we should have not been forthright with Whit after he years of service and offered him a deal that we could have gotten out of honoring?

Bengals offered him good money; LA offered him a longer deal. Let's see if they honor it.

Even if they don't, it's a 1yr/$12.5m deal regardless if he gets cut today. That's still $3.5m more than the Bengals offered for 1 year of work and he's on a team with a win.

Agree with Bfine on this one. The team addressed the situation, but the players have not lived up to the expectations.

We have 2 athletic tackles, and I feel that Paul is used to bruiser types like Whit (Whit is athletic as well, but not like some of these newer younger tackles).

We most likely need a change in strategy using our O-line to really get them to play up to their potential.

It's one thing to say the Bengals did a good job in preparing for the departure of Whit and Andre in the 2015 draft by drafting two tackles in the first two rounds. I wont argue that.

But since then they have done a terrible job in handling the o-line situation, in particular this last off-season. Which is why the Bengals currently have a bottom tier o-line.

For starters, Paul Alexander is still the coach.
They bench CedO at end of last season, yet move him to left tackle as Whit went elsewhere. Brilliant backup plan.
Right guard filled with a unproven 5th round pick after Zeitler left.
They brought a broken down fat Andre Smith back for whatever idiotic reason.
Drafted no one when there were at minimum 3 rookie lineman that would have been upgrades at center and tackle.
Bodine still at center.
Lastly Andre was the only free agent they brought in to boot.

(09-18-2017, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: 100% accurate.  However, I will predict that over 75% of the people on here will disagree and say the Bengals never do anything right, their draft is terrible, and their owner is cheap.  After two games, they will decide this because their offensive coordinator had one of the worst possible schemes for attacking a defense with a strong front.  

One problem magnified 1000 times because it looked so bad and they are 0-2.  

Green Bay will be smarting after their loss last night, but if the Bengals find a way to win there, without Burfict, they will be right back in things.  If they lose, they will almost certainly be done, but we would be 100% certain of new leadership next year.  

Honestly weren't the majority people at least a little bit worried about "the plan" for the O-Line?

Kudos for them trying to replace with higher round draft picks instead of bottom dwellers.

Ced O. could have been a steal of the draft.  He did have other red flags other than the injury though.

Did the front office/coaches try to address the O-Line?  Yes.

The cheapness is not that they are willing to pay at all.  They just have a limit.

Which would be fine but... ya know...  it's the Bengals. 

You're gonna have to open that wallet just a little bit more or sign players for a little longer contract than other teams.

As a financial strategy they are sound.  But we as win-hungry fans don't really care about that.  Do we?

Only if we are making believe we're team owners, do we care about saving dollars.

The fine line of saving bucks and fielding a competitive team is narrow for our beloved team.

Missing on draft picks and budgeting known talent can put you right in sh*tshow we are witnessing.

I think most have the grasp on it.  You ultimately just have to accept it.  Which brings sadness, anger, apathy as well.

(09-18-2017, 10:54 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ced looks like the prototypical offensive lineman - Tall, lean, and muscular. He's also really athletic.

That said, he doesn't produce on the field. Even in college.

The Bengals fell in love with his looks...much like teams fall in love with guys combine numbers...like 40 yard dash times.

Wait?!?!? I'm seeing a trend here.

This is aimed at Ross, who, btw, scored 17 TD's last year.  That sounds like a lot of production to me.  Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

(09-18-2017, 10:11 AM)Wyche Wrote: He did against Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl.....but that's college, same as Darnold.

Dalton did very well, but they didnt trail at the end of that game. If it came down to the waning moments like the SC-Texas game did, would Dalton have gotten them into field goal range with under a minute to go? Based on what I've seen from Dalton under pressure (both pressure from the defense and big game pressure), I'm not so sure...

But as you said, it was college. And he was playing for Patterson, not Marv. Lots of variables that make it so we can only speculate, but never know. 

In any case, I hope whoever replaces Marv gives Dalton a shot and doesn't trade him right off the bat. I've wanted to see what Dalton can do without Marv for years... I just hope the offensive line doesn't permanently ruin him in the meantime 

(09-17-2017, 11:23 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Obviously a lot of talk about the oline and everyone can see it is a work in progress. However, the one constant comment I see that doesn't seem to be based on reality is that the Bengals didn't "address" the oline.

In 2015 we realized that Whit was getting a little long in the tooth and Andre Smith was on the final year of his contract. So we draft 2 OTs in each of the first 2 rounds of the draft. Despite the amateur experts in this forum both were considered high draft choices and great prospects. Both were All Americans their final year (Walter Camp/Football writers).

The plan was perfect. Give Ced a "red shirt" year to heal while we didn't need him and let Jake get experience all along the oline. Andre leaves in 2016 and Ced is ready to get his feet wet at RT. He's not ready and gets benched. Understanding that their top prospect may not be ready for primetime they offer a 35 year old Whit a lucrative 1 year deal; unfortunately, LA was willing to employ him until he was 38. The Bengals could not wait that long to try and get return on their investments.

Will Ced and Jake work out? Who knows. But sometimes you have to crack a couple eggs to make an omelet.

I agreed and still agree with the plan the Bengals had.
The problem was obviously the player(s) selected.

(09-18-2017, 08:49 PM)McC Wrote: This is aimed at Ross, who, btw, scored 17 TD's last year.  That sounds like a lot of production to me.  Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Me? Tell the Bengals that. They benched him after he fumbled on 1 carry in favor of an undrafted rookie...

(09-18-2017, 09:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Me? Tell the Bengals that. They benched him after he fumbled on 1 carry in favor of an undrafted rookie...

I have a strong feeling that they punished him for the fumble without getting a clear picture of it.

The Bengals were catching some flack for that after the game. That guy's helmet hit square on the ball.

(09-18-2017, 05:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Are folks suggesting we should have not been forthright with Whit after he years of service and offered him a deal that we could have gotten out of honoring?

Bengals offered him good money; LA offered him a longer deal. Let's see if they honor it.

The Bengals cut players under contract every year. This year included. You know this. Don't pretend like the Bengals did Whit a favor by offering him a lesser deal.

The Rams offered Whitworth a better deal and they structured it so that it protects the team's cap if he fails to live up to expectations. The deal was was smart and creative; everything the Bengals' FO isn't. In the end they let about $2.5 million in guaranteed money prevent them from re-signing Whit while they currently sit on $12 million in cap space so they could start someone at LT this season who got benched while playing RT last year.