(09-18-2017, 03:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: Can we be fair here for a second? Obviously Whit is better, but Ced and Fisher have seen better competition so far in the season. Our guys have seen Suggs and Watt/Clowney/Mercilous. Whit saw some guys off the street the Colts have rushing the passer then this week he saw Kerrigan and struggled.

Again, I'm not saying Whit isn't better but let's slow down with saying how good Whit is until he actually plays real players.

Without cheating, name me another good pass rusher on the Ravens. I think the Ravens and Redskins are pretty comparable. I will give you that the Colts aren't anything to write home about.

Worth noting, the Jags held the Texans sackless in week 1.

So I am still not sure how much it is the Bengals playing against better competition, or simply the competition looking better because the Bengals are so bad.

(09-18-2017, 03:59 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Without cheating, name me another good pass rusher on the Ravens. I think the Ravens and Redskins are pretty comparable. I will give you that the Colts aren't anything to write home about.

Worth noting, the Jags held the Texans sackless in week 1.

So I am still not sure how much it is the Bengals playing against better competition, or simply the competition looking better because the Bengals are so bad.

You don't need to name another one because Suggs is still an elite rusher. Although Zadarious SMith I think will end up being good (Bengals almost drafted him) but he got hurt mid game.

As to not seeing it...Is Suggs better than any rusher on the Colts? Quick name someone on the colts defense without cheating? If that statement is true and the Houston rushers are better than in turn our tackles have seen better competition, because as I said Suggs > Colts pass rushers and Houston >= Redskins pass rusher . Even if the point is arguable, look at it from the financial aspect. You are paying Whit to not even be close to bottom of the league guys so he should be delivering results far better. Again, not saying Whit isn't better but so far he has had a good game against nobodies and a bad game against good rushers.

We will see in a couple weeks when we play Indy an apples to apples comparison about how much better Whit may be than what we got.

Whit has been overrated for years I don't care what the fake news PFF says. As a player and a leader.

(09-18-2017, 04:38 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Whit has been overrated for years I don't care what the fake news PFF says. As a player and a leader.

Well, not going that far...

(09-18-2017, 03:59 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Without cheating, name me another good pass rusher on the Ravens. I think the Ravens and Redskins are pretty comparable. I will give you that the Colts aren't anything to write home about.

Worth noting, the Jags held the Texans sackless in week 1.

So I am still not sure how much it is the Bengals playing against better competition, or simply the competition looking better because the Bengals are so bad.

Not to mention the run blocking is horrible. I guess the Texans and Ravens are just the 2 best defenses in the league.

Oh...the Texans were missing Cushing and their 2 starting CB's too...

(09-18-2017, 12:33 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Still brings me back to the thread I made after 2014;

That year, Oniel Cousins gave up more pressures in ONE GAME (ether against us or the Panthers, 8 or 9 of them), than Whitworth did the whole year (7, 1 hit, 6 hurries).

And he didn't make PB or AP that year... just insane, especially with how wel he run-blocked.

Wasn't 2014 the year he played half the season at LG? I remember thinking damn Whit is even better at guard than he is at tackle and as one of the best LTs in football that's saying something.

(09-18-2017, 04:38 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Whit has been overrated for years I don't care what the fake news PFF says. As a player and a leader.

I'll bite. You do realize that the Bengals tried to retain Whitworth right?

IF Whitworth and Zeitler were so terrible...why not replace them in free agency? 

(09-18-2017, 05:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'll bite. You do realize that the Bengals tried to retain Whitworth right?

IF Whitworth and Zeitler were so terrible...why not replace them in free agency? 

You are a Bengals fan right? We don't do free agency.

(09-18-2017, 05:05 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: You are a Bengals fan right? We don't do free agency.

Yep...and we have a 4-5 win team because of it.

(09-18-2017, 05:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep...and we have a 4-5 win team because of it.

Yeah that's why Ced should of been the starting LT about half way thru the year last year and Fisher should of been the starting RT so we would not be flying blind into this year.

(09-18-2017, 04:38 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Whit has been overrated for years I don't care what the fake news PFF says. As a player and a leader.

:troll:


Nice inclusion of the term "fake news" to make the trolling harder. Lol

(09-18-2017, 03:02 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Look at his contract. If he plays well the Rams got a bargain. If he sucks, the Rams can cut him with only $6 million in dead cap money or $3 million for the next two seasons. Whit will be paid less salary this season and next season than the Bengals offered to play one season and if he is cut he will only receive about $2.5 million more than the Bengals offered him. So basically the Bengals didn't re-sign him over a difference of $2.5 million while they currently sit on $12 million in salary cap space. It was stupid not to do that deal and bet Ogbuehi would inexplicably get better from what we saw last season in the span of one off season.

I am going off memory, but Whit signed for 12 million I believe in 2017, so f they cut him, they pay another 6 million. So if my math is correct, how is paying him 18 million ion 2017 (one year) a good deal for any team again? At that rate, he better be the best LT in the NFL.

(09-18-2017, 07:51 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am going off memory, but Whit signed for 12 million I believe in 2017, so f they cut him, they pay another 6 million. So if my math is correct, how is paying him 18 million ion 2017 (one year) a good deal for any team again? At that rate, he better be the best LT in the NFL.

That's not how his contract is structured. Again, look at his contract to see the details for yourself.

(09-18-2017, 05:15 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Yeah that's why Ced should of been the starting LT about half way thru the year last year and Fisher should of been the starting RT so we would not be flying blind into this year.

What did Ced show at RT that would make anyone think he'd be any good at LT?

(09-18-2017, 11:17 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: What did Ced show at RT that would make anyone think he'd be any good at LT?

A first round pick tag along with some really crazy pictures of piano man banging a goat.

I'm just guessing here...might be what piano man actually teaches his guys, how to blackmail the boss since he clearly doesn't teach them how to play on the line.

(09-18-2017, 11:10 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That's not how his contract is structured. Again, look at his contract to see the details for yourself.

He got a $5 mil signing bonus and a $7.5 mil base salary in 2017, so he's being paid $12.5 million this year. There's a difference between real money and cap dollars.

(09-18-2017, 05:01 PM)Synric Wrote: Wasn't 2014 the year he played half the season at LG? I remember thinking damn Whit is even better at guard than he is at tackle and as one of the best LTs in football that's saying something.

'13!

That's when Boling went down with the ACL, he moved to LG and Collins started at LT, paving his unmotivated rear to the stupid contract Tampa gave him.

(09-18-2017, 11:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: He got a $5 mil signing bonus and a $7.5 mil base salary in 2017, so he's being paid $12.5 million this year. There's a difference between real money and cap dollars.

That's correct. His cap hit for this year is less than $10 million. Does he get paid $18 million for one year if he is cut like Luvinit wrote? No. If he is cut after one season he gets the guaranteed money and that's all. Or about $2.5 million more in guaranteed money than the Bengals offered. And if the Rams do cut him after one year they have less than $6 million in dead cap space which they can pro rate over 2 years. Both Whit's cap hit and cash pay out for this year is less than the franchise tag for linemen, also. All in all, the only way this is a bad deal for the Rams is if Whit suddenly starts to play like Ogbuehi.

(09-19-2017, 10:06 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That's correct. His cap hit for this year is less than $10 million. Does he get paid $18 million for one year if he is cut like Luvinit wrote?  No. If he is cut after one season he gets the guaranteed money and that's all. Or about $2.5 million more in guaranteed money than the Bengals offered. And if the Rams do cut him after one year they have less than $6 million in dead cap space which they can pro rate over 2 years. Both Whit's cap hit and cash pay out for this year is less than the franchise tag for linemen, also. All in all, the only way this is a bad deal for the Rams is if Whit suddenly starts to play like Ogbuehi.

I used your numbers of 12 million for 2016 and then you stated a 6 million cap hit if he is cut in 2018. That means if cut, he would have received 18.5 million for playing in 2017. The cap hit gets paid to him and t hus why it has to be factored into the equation.

You are dismissing a 6 million dollar cap hit as no big deal, it is a huge deal even if you put it over 2 years. The Bengals wanted  a straight up 12 million dollar deal for 1 year, but Whittowrth wanted a 2 year guarantee which he got. The entire contract was not guaranteed, but 18.5 million of it was meaning he gets 18.5 million regardless if he plays in 2018. So, no it is not close to be a great deal for a 35 or 36 OT in my opinion who play is starting to regress.

(09-19-2017, 10:12 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I used your numbers of 12 million for 2016 and then you stated a 6 million cap hit if he is cut in 2018. That means if cut, he would have received 18.5 million for playing in 2017. The cap hit gets paid to him and t hus why it has to be factored into the equation.

You are dismissing a 6 million dollar cap hit as no big deal, it is a huge deal even if you put it over 2 years. The Bengals wanted  a straight up 12 million dollar deal for 1 year, but Whittowrth wanted a 2 year guarantee which he got. The entire contract was not guaranteed, but 18.5 million of it was meaning he gets 18.5 million regardless if he plays in 2018. So, no it is not close to be a great deal for a 35 or 36 OT in my opinion who play is starting to regress.

No.

I can tell you still haven't looked at his contract and you are misquoting or misunderstood what I wrote. There is no point continuing this discussion until you look at his contract and get your information straight.