(09-21-2017, 04:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The next job that could be lost should be Marvin's.

Absolutely.  Although, lets do a two fer and send Pa packing too.

(09-21-2017, 03:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Anybody give me a comment Marvin could make to his players about their poor showing that would make you happy, in which, Marvin could still retain his legitimate power

Maybe if he took the blame. Saying that he failed the team. That he would resolve to do better. That he needed to be held accountable for his failures. That would be a start.

(09-21-2017, 04:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The next job that could be lost should be Marvin's.

It should be the entire coaching staff.  No offense to our position coaches that are good at their job, but I want a clean slate. Bring in a new HC from outside the Bengals organization and have him pick an entirely new coaching staff.

(09-21-2017, 04:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It should be the entire coaching staff.  No offense to our position coaches that are good at their job, but I want a clean slate. Bring in a new HC from outside the Bengals organization and have him pick an entirely new coaching staff.

I think I'd be on board with that.  Wash the stink of Marvin right out of here.

(09-21-2017, 04:17 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think that's part of the issue. I'm not sure has much legitimacy left with the players at this point.

I'm not sure it matters what he says...because his whole shtick become so incredibly stale and uninspiring. 

Honestly, after his speech, which do you think there was more of among the players: internal eyerolls or renewed motivation?

My big thing with Marvin is he never seems to put blame on himself. It's always "The execution was bad" or "Do your job!". Maybe I've missed it, but I can't recall a single time he's admitted he could do something different or better.

(09-21-2017, 04:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It should be the entire coaching staff.  No offense to our position coaches that are good at their job, but I want a clean slate. Bring in a new HC from outside the Bengals organization and have him pick an entirely new coaching staff.

There were three coaches I wanted gone. Marvin, Zampese, and Alexander. Mike Brown seems like the kind of guy so unwilling to change that he'll do it piece by piece rather than all at once. Given Alexander has a longer tenure with the Bengals compared to Marvin and Marvin's contract is up at the end of the year, I can see Marvin getting the axe before Alexander.

(09-21-2017, 04:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Maybe if he took the blame. Saying that he failed the team. That he would resolve to do better. That he needed to be held accountable for his failures. That would be a start.

Pretty much.

He (sort of) took some responsibility in the Frazier situation (if I'm remembering right, it was more like 'it's my fault Frazier wasn't a good coach). Kind of backhanded, but there was that time. The only other thing I could remember where Marvin said he had any real fault was... and this is going to have me cleaning up sooooo many posts later... Gatorade.

Quote:I was told this morning about Johnathan's comments that were printed," Lewis said Wednesay in an online chat with the Cincinnati Enquirer. "It's my fault that I feel that a player doesn't need to take a dozen Gatorades home in his backpack each night and that we are paying him a salary. I'm sure that Johnathan would not have been one of the abusive players, but it is my policy."

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/7/18/3168370/marvin-lewis-responds-to-johnathan-josephs-bash-against-the

(09-21-2017, 04:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It should be the entire coaching staff.  No offense to our position coaches that are good at their job, but I want a clean slate. Bring in a new HC from outside the Bengals organization and have him pick an entirely new coaching staff.

1000% agree

This team desperately needs a drastic culture change ! The only way you can truly do that is to absolutely clean house. Everybody has to go - period ! All the way down to the water boy.

(09-21-2017, 04:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Maybe if he took the blame. Saying that he failed the team. That he would resolve to do better. That he needed to be held accountable for his failures. That would be a start.

So you think he should tell a bunch of folks that are being paid millions of dollars to play football that it's his fault that they are 0-2?

It is Marvin's boss's job to let him know if he's failing and many here blame that boss for not doing so. Now the same folks are blaming Marvin for telling his employees they are not performing to standard and can easily be replaced if there is no improvement. 

(09-21-2017, 06:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you think he should tell a bunch of folks that are being paid millions of dollars to play football that it's his fault that they are 0-2?

Yes. Is he not the Head Coach? Is he not the person who chose the position coaches? Is he not the one who promoted Zampese to OC? Is he not the one who drafted the players? Is he not the one that failed to address the offensive line in the offseason?

Aside from that, people respond better to a leader that takes the responsibility for failure on themselves even if they're not really the one responsible than they do a leader who blames those underneath him.

(09-21-2017, 06:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is Marvin's boss's job to let him know if he's failing and many here blame that boss for not doing so. Now the same folks are blaming Marvin for telling his employees they are not performing to standard and can easily be replaced if there is no improvement. 

Folks are criticizing Marvin for being a hypocrite. He says he wants to hold them accountable NOW when in the past he's had plenty of time to hold players accountable for a variety of reasons and has routinely failed to do so. Add to that the seeming lack of holding himself accountable, and it's not that hard to see why people would be critical.

(09-21-2017, 06:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes. Is he not the Head Coach? Is he not the person who chose the position coaches? Is he not the one who promoted Zampese to OC? Is he not the one who drafted the players? Is he not the one that failed to address the offensive line in the offseason?

Aside from that, people respond better to a leader that takes the responsibility for failure on themselves even if they're not really the one responsible than they do a leader who blames those underneath him.


Folks are criticizing Marvin for being a hypocrite. He says he wants to hold them accountable NOW when in the past he's had plenty of time to hold players accountable for a variety of reasons and has routinely failed to do so. Add to that the seeming lack of holding himself accountable, and it's not that hard to see why people would be critical.

And if you read the comments in the OP he said "WE" got Zampase fired. 

Perhaps this is a different reaction from Marvin because these are different circumstances. A talented team sits at 0-2. He doesn't have to tell his players his job is on the line; they know that, as he is in a lame duck season.

Some folks just dislike Marvin Lewis being HC of the Cincinnati Bengals and will jump at anything including him challenging his players after an 0-2 start.

I wnder if anyone would have been upset if he had told the players "Don't worry, all our jobs are safe", 

(09-21-2017, 03:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Anybody give me a comment Marvin could make to his players about their poor showing that would make you happy, in which, Marvin could still retain his legitimate power

"Today, I fired Piano Man for being the stubborn, incompetent boob he is. Also, I resign as HC of the Cincinnati Bengals."


Yup....that should do it.  :andy:

(09-21-2017, 04:25 PM)McC Wrote: I think I'd be on board with that.  Wash the stink of Marvin right out of here.

Alexander's stench is ten years older than that. Absurd.

(09-21-2017, 08:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And if you read the comments in the OP he said "WE" got Zampase fired. 

And the sentence immediately preceding that was "You've got to do the work..." not We, you.

(09-21-2017, 08:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps this is a different reaction from Marvin because these are different circumstances. A talented team sits at 0-2. He doesn't have to tell his players his job is on the line; they know that, as he is in a lame duck season.

He doesn't have to, no, but it would go a long way to getting the most out of them if he stated that he knows his job is on the line, that he's going to work harder than ever to win a championship, and that he expects them, too.

(09-21-2017, 08:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Some folks just dislike Marvin Lewis being HC of the Cincinnati Bengals and will jump at anything including him challenging his players after an 0-2 start.

True, but that doesn't automatically mean their criticism is invalid. It's like people who are vehemently anti-Trump and constantly deride the man for even the most mundane and ridiculous things. Sometimes their criticism of the man is valid.

(09-21-2017, 03:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Anybody give me a comment Marvin could make to his players about their poor showing that would make you happy, in which, Marvin could still retain his legitimate power

actions speak louder than words. It should be what should focus on doing better than what they should be saying better

(09-21-2017, 04:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Maybe if he took the blame. Saying that he failed the team. That he would resolve to do better. That he needed to be held accountable for his failures. That would be a start.

This is a very well-said response. What I've noticed most commonly in good leaders is that when things go well, they credit the team as a whole. But when things go bad, they take the blame and say what they personally need to improve upon to get the team to succeed.

So Lewis said during the weekly news conference that replacing a coach isn’t going to change things one way or the other, it’s on the players to change it on the field. So, why did he fire Zampese if it’s not going to change anything?

He's such a ***** idiot. He'll say anything to make things difficult for the press.