The Bengals have the smallest scouting department in the NFL and no GM. Almost no scouting department, it is so small. Our coaches after the season go to the Senior Bowl and Combine, that's about it. The other teams have a huge advantage. Now lets look at our # 1 Draft Picks....OK, AJ Green was a home run. Kirkpatrick who we drafted injured didn't do much for years but is starting to look good. ......Now lets look at the others. Jonathan Joseph was good but we didn't pay him and he has started for Houston for a while. I guess you can add Carson Palmer gone since 2010 season playing for other teams. How about Gresham who we let go playing for Arizona. How about Leon Hall who went to Giants and is now a free agent. There is Eifert who is always injured anymore. There is Dennard who has yet to live up to the high pick. There is Ogbuehi who we drafted injured and has yet to live up to his high pick. There is WJ3 who we drafted injured and hasn't lived up to his pick yet. There is Ross who we drafted injured and hasn't lived up to his high pick yet. Then there is Zietler who Mike Brown said he will never pay a guard, as he said when he let Montoya and Steinbach go.

Now these are all 1st round picks. The Bengals seem to be striking out at the plate and the few times they make a hit, Mike is too cheap to resign them. I don't think a team can keep wiffing at the plate on their first round picks over and over and expect not to slip backwards. I might add that Hall is a free agent, and Bengals may want to consider him back on the cheap for depth we could use. Mostly though I will say again that Mike Brown is CHEAP to a FAULT. I myself think it would be cheaper to higher a scouting department the size of other NFL teams, so that some of these high priced bonus baby 1st round picks actually help your team. Of course when they prove worthy of the top pick, you need to PAY THEM, something else Mikey hates to do.

So AJ Green was a home run. Kirkpatrick seems to be becoming pretty good. Other than that our 1st round picks are not helping, either by now on other teams, or here not living up to the hype. I lay the entire blame on Mike Brown to CHEAP to hire scouts. A penny cheap and a dollar stupid as he is losing money on poor 1st round picks. This was indeed the case with Mike Brown all through the 1990's with names such as Dave Klingler. Mike's huge gaff in Bengals 50 Year History was turning down Mike Ditka offer of every Saints draft pick plus 1st round the next 2 years so Ditka could draft RB-Rickey Williams. Paul Brown or a good scouting department would have quickly taken that deal. Instead Mike Brown took Akili Smith who was highly recommended by a guy in Cincinnati with a drug store and his drug store list. Mike passed up on all these much needed drat picks to turn around the 1990's Bungles. To this very day, Mike Brown and his lack of scouts are killing us in the draft. Those looking ahead to the 2018 draft need to understand Mike Brown and no scouts will be as lame in 2018 draft. Sadly, as long as Mike Brown runs things, we will have the smallest scouting department in NFL, and that is bad news for the 2018 draft as well. How about the kicker we drafted too early this draft and he is already on another team. He never suited up for a regular season game here. That is Mike Brown in all his glory.

(09-23-2017, 08:46 PM)kevin Wrote: The Bengals have the smallest scouting department in the NFL and no GM.  Almost no scouting department, it is so small.  Our coaches after the season go to the Senior Bowl and Combine, that's about it. The other teams have a huge advantage.  Now lets look at our # 1 Draft Picks....OK, AJ Green was a home run.   Kirkpatrick who we drafted injured didn't do much for years but is starting to look good.  ......Now lets look at the others.  Jonathan Joseph was good but we didn't pay him and he has started for Houston for a while.  I guess you can add Carson Palmer gone since 2010 season playing for other teams.  How about Gresham who we let go playing for Arizona.  How about Leon Hall who went to Giants and is now a free agent.  There is Eifert who is always injured anymore. There is Dennard who has yet to live up to the high pick.  There is Ogbuehi who we drafted injured and has yet to live up to his high pick. There is WJ3 who we drafted injured and hasn't lived up to his pick yet.  There is Ross who we drafted injured and hasn't lived up to his high pick yet. Then there is Zietler who Mike Brown said he will never pay a guard, as he said when he let Montoya and Steinbach go.

Now these are all 1st round picks.  The Bengals seem to be striking out at the plate and the few times they make a hit, Mike is too cheap to resign them.  I don't think a team can keep wiffing at the plate on their first round picks over and over and expect not to slip backwards.  I might add that Hall is a free agent, and Bengals may want to consider him back on the cheap for depth we could use. Mostly though I will say again that Mike Brown is CHEAP to a FAULT.  I myself think it would be cheaper to higher a scouting department the size of other NFL teams, so that some of these high prices bonus baby 1st round picks actually help your team.  Of course when they prove worthy of the top pick, you need to PAY THEM, some else Mikey hates to do.

So AJ Green was a home run. Kirkpatrick seems to be becoming pretty good.  Other than that our 1st round picks are not helping, either by now on other teams, or here not living up to the hype.  I lay the entire blame on Mike Brown to CHEAP to hire scouts.  A penny cheap and a dollar stupid as he is losing money on poor 1st round picks.

You have OCD don't you? why always 3-4 paragraphs? Very hard to read after a few (hundred) beers.

Every team has hindsight 20/20.

Each year we (fans) are pretty satisfied with the draft. Marvin knows how to draft well, doesn't know how to utilize those pics well. I have said it before and I will say it again. Bad coaching destroys good talent. Many players, if utilized correctly, could have been stellar. Yet? Marvin Lewis and the cronies under his thumb kept many careers from exploding. When you come to the Bengals and do well, you are let go (MB) and your talent is used elsewhere. 

Kevin,

You are preaching to the choir. Mike Brown isn't listening and never has and never will. He "knows" better than everyone else.

I don't know if it's we draft bad players or we just don't understand position value anymore. The NFL has changed a lot since 2011 because of the new CBA and spread offenses taking over the college game positions value has changed a lot. For example good Offensive lineman are harder to find than good cornerbacks in today's NFL but yet we let our two best lineman go and keep to average corners? It doesn't make much sense. Also developing Offensive lineman is a lot harder in the NFL so it has become a position to look for in free agency and through trade. Which the Bengals refuse to do.

(09-23-2017, 08:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: You have OCD don't you? why always 3-4 paragraphs? Very hard to read after a few (hundred) beers.

Every team has hindsight 20/20.

Each year we (fans) are pretty satisfied with the draft. Marvin knows how to draft well, doesn't know how to utilize those pics well. I have said it before and I will say it again. Bad coaching destroys good talent. Many players, if utilized correctly, could have been stellar. Yet? Marvin Lewis and the cronies under his thumb kept many careers from exploding. When you come to the Bengals and do well, you are let go (MB) and your talent is used elsewhere. 

I'm not going to go one sentence and say Mike Brown suks.....Read it or don't read it......It takes more than one or two sentences to describe why Mike Brown having the smallest scouting department in the NFL is killing this franchise, and will continue to kill this franchise.  As for the coaches over the years, Mike Brown picks are horse manure that he asks the coaches to turn into filet mignon. 

False.

NFL scouting isn't what it used to be...The digital age allows scouts and General Managers to just receive all 22 tapes of each game and their are also a few big independent scouting agencies for general scouting reports.

We actually haven't done all that bad with our drafts. The entire thing is a complete crap shoot anyway, no matter how many scouts or "expert consultants" a team has they still don't know how anybody will pan out.

The only problem I have with any of our recent draft picks (particularly first rounders) is the injury history. We have taken far too many chances with injured players and IMO that is just not smart. Injuries are a red flag that you don't want to ignore.

Did you recycle this thread idea from the 90's?

Dear lord man we have missed now and again but the core of this team is still via the draft and the core is pretty good.

(09-23-2017, 09:40 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: We actually haven't done all that bad with our drafts. The entire thing is a complete crap shoot anyway, no matter how many scouts or "expert consultants" a team has they still don't know how anybody will pan out.

The only problem I have with any of our recent draft picks (particularly first rounders) is the injury history. We have taken far too many chances with injured players and IMO that is just not smart. Injuries are a red flag that you don't want to ignore.

That was always a bargaining chip for Mikey when 1st round draft picks could negotiate their rookie contract. Injured = lower contract dollars. Mikey still selects players the same way.

Scouts are just like alcohol now? The more you have the better the buzz?
If the size of the scouting department was the most critical then obviously we'd be in dead last place every season which simply isn't the case. It may have some correlation ,but insignificant compared to quality.  You can have a handful of really good scouts or a thousand really crappy scouts.. You can have a great bottle of single malt Scotch whiskey or 12 cases of Milwaukees Best Ice Light and a can of Vienna sausages.. Pick your poison. 

It's like so many other things in the league. The overwhelming majority of teams have around 20 or so scouts (some even more), Mike Brown has 4. Why have a big scouting department when you can get the same scouting reports as the press for free!

Just like other professionally ran teams have a practice bubble. Or how teams have a legitimate GM instead of paying themselves for the position. Or how most teams don't save at least $5m for injuries during the season. Or how 31 teams use free agency. The list goes on and on.

We have the worst owner/GM in professional sports. He's a cheap piece of shit and our team will suffer as long as he runs things.

Amazing that for a team that wants to "run more", they don't invest in the interior offensive line.

(09-24-2017, 12:07 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: We have the worst owner/GM in professional sports. He's a cheap piece of shit and our team will suffer as long as he runs things.

This is all that ever needs to be said.  Everything else, the coaching, the injuries, the trades, FA and drafts - it's all just window dressing.  

Kevin...I started a similar thread. I agree with you.

There is no way to scout players in person during the college football season with a small scouting staff...so the Bengals do most of their scouting at Pro Days...which isn't game situation?

What does that lead to? Guys like Ced who are really muscular and athletic and really fast guys like John Ross. How they perform in games? Remains to be seen.

This won't change so long as Mike Brown is in charge. Once Katie takes over completely, our best case scenario would be:

1) She's not as much of a penny-pincher as her old man.
2) She decides she's not interested in overseeing the day-to-day operations of the football team and hires a proper general manager.

I know next to nothing about Katie, so I have no earthly clue how likely either of these two things are.

It amazes me of anyone can defend the business practices/strategy of a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

Some fans are even delusional enough to think that other NFL teams copy our strategy.

That's why I laugh whenever someone says Mike Brown cares about winning. Anyone who gave a damn about winning would've been like, "Wow, 26 years and no playoff win. Clearly I am doing something wrong."

What's the definition of insanity again?

(09-23-2017, 11:26 PM)grampahol Wrote: Scouts are just like alcohol now? The more you have the better the buzz?
If the size of the scouting department was the most critical then obviously we'd be in dead last place every season which simply isn't the case. It may have some correlation ,but insignificant compared to quality.  You can have a handful of really good scouts or a thousand really crappy scouts.. You can have a great bottle of single malt Scotch whiskey or 12 cases of Milwaukees Best Ice Light and a can of Vienna sausages.. Pick your poison. 

Does anyone believe that the Bengals small scouting staff is just that much better than anyone else's scouts...thus we need way less?

(09-24-2017, 03:47 PM)Big Boss Wrote: That's why I laugh whenever someone says Mike Brown cares about winning.  Anyone who gave a damn about winning would've been like, "Wow, 26 years and no playoff win.  Clearly I am doing something wrong."

What's the definition of insanity again?

The best way I can put it is every owner in the NFL will say their goal is to win a championship...but some teams allocate more resources than others when it comes to pursuing that goal.

The NFL is a league of parity. Since we're last won a playoff game...23 different teams have been to a Super Bowl. That stat alone says a lot.

The other truth is that a lot of Bengals fans don't care about winning a Super Bowl. They only care about not being as bad as we were in the 90's and if we make a playoff game and lose...they are happy and consider it a successful year.

Fans of the Patriots, Steelers, Packers, etc expect to atleast play in a Super Bowl every year...but some of those teams have won 6 Super Bowls.