(09-25-2017, 12:23 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I thought he did well.  Offense looked Sharp in the first half.  Then Dalton turned Dalton....Mixon was solid too.

Lazor did good in the 1st half. In the 2nd half...he was meh.

Like Romo said...with a new OC you're usually good for a game or two just because there is no tape for teams to gameplan against.

(09-25-2017, 09:27 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: For Dalton, the goals always move. Bad numbers = he sucks. Good numbers = they don't tell the story, he sucks. Dalton played well. People are ignoring the fact how important being able to trust your OLine impacts QB play. He missed a couple of throws. It happens. The ultimate difference in that game was coaching. One team made adjustments because what they did in the first half didn't work. The other team never makes adjustments because the head coach says that's a myth created by the media.

The real problem is the owner/GM that has been consistent throughout these 26 years of futility.

I understand Oline play is important, but it doesn't take away from his performance. Rodgers was playing behind a line made of primarily backups, and still did well under pressure. Dalton is AWFUL under pressure.

I agree about the real problems of course.. but sadly, it doesn't look like it'll change for a while.

(09-25-2017, 09:37 AM)thillan Wrote: I understand Oline play is important, but it doesn't take away from his performance. Rodgers was playing behind a line made of primarily backups, and still did well under pressure. Dalton is AWFUL under pressure.

I agree about the real problems of course.. but sadly, it doesn't look like it'll change for a while.

That's another reason I place more blame on the team. Dalton has always had a tough time with pressure. So we don't offer a contract to one of our best OLineman and lowball our best OLineman and replace them with much lesser players. We continue to trot out a T who was the worst T in the league last year and another T who isn't much better if at all. There was no value placed on the OLine this offseason and no efforts made to improve it. I just have a hard time blaming this debacle on Dalton when ownership did absolutely nothing to help him.

Unfortunately I don't know that it will ever change.

(09-25-2017, 09:37 AM)thillan Wrote: I understand Oline play is important, but it doesn't take away from his performance. Rodgers was playing behind a line made of primarily backups, and still did well under pressure. Dalton is AWFUL under pressure.

I agree about the real problems of course.. but sadly, it doesn't look like it'll change for a while.

Rodgers moves around and extends plays. Dalton throws the ball into the stands immediately when the blitz is coming.

How many times did the blitz come and Dalton looked straight at it and panicked when there were receivers running open.

I think we need to call Dalton what he is...a game manager. He's not a QB that's going to just play at such an elite level that we overcome things.

If you put a good offensive line, good receivers, and good RB's out there...he'll be above average. That's a game manager.

Now Rodgers...you can put a bad line, above average RB's, take his 2nd best receiver away...and he'll play well.

(09-25-2017, 09:42 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Rodgers moves around and extends plays. Dalton throws the ball into the stands immediately when the blitz is coming.

How many times did the blitz come and Dalton looked straight at it and panicked when there were receivers running open.

I think we need to call Dalton what he is...a game manager. He's not a QB that's going to just play at such an elite level that we overcome things.

If you put a good offensive line, good receivers, and good RB's out there...he'll be above average. That's a game manager.

Now Rodgers...you can put a bad line, above average RB's, take his 2nd best receiver away...and he'll play well.

EXACTLY.  So why do you let your oline go to shit knowing this?

(09-25-2017, 09:41 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: That's another reason I place more blame on the team. Dalton has always had a tough time with pressure. So we don't offer a contract to one of our best OLineman and lowball our best OLineman and replace them with much lesser players. We continue to trot out a T who was the worst T in the league last year and another T who isn't much better if at all. There was no value placed on the OLine this offseason and no efforts made to improve it. I just have a hard time blaming this debacle on Dalton when ownership did absolutely nothing to help him.

Unfortunately I don't know that it will ever change.

We should have learned......they did the same thing with Palmer.

(09-25-2017, 09:36 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Lazor did good in the 1st half. In the 2nd half...he was meh.

Like Romo said...with a new OC you're usually good for a game or two just because there is no tape for teams to gameplan against.

It's a symptom of Marv ball.  You gotta admit though, he ran slants, attacked the seam, and had some crossing routes to get people open.....at least that was a step up from KZ.

However, I will say that I think Mixon slipping on 3rd and 1 perfectly describes our year. He gets a 1st there, and it looks like our chances of winning are nearly 100%

(09-25-2017, 09:11 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: Right? However, let's lay all of the blame on the QB. Everyone points to the negatives Romo had to say about Dalton, but totally ignores all of the negatives he said about the OLine. Dalton can't trust his blockers and his rhythm is completely off. Through that, he still played a solid game yesterday; 78% completion percentage, over 200 yards, 2 TDs, no turnovers, and a rating of 120. However, we're back to nitpicking every pass. "He sucks! He overthrew someone!"

I said it before, but I actually look forward to seeing Dalton playing for another team. The media narrative will change and he'll do fine. When this team moves on from Dalton, he'll go win playoff games, be supported by fans, and enjoy the rest of his career.

Romo nailed his analysis of this team.  He also noted that Dalton's timing and rhythm is way off, and why that is so.  He said you don't have time to let plays develop.  I thought Lazor did a good job of getting him and the running game in a rhythm early.  A much better showing.  Hey, we lost to a HOFer on his home turf in OT.  Not too shabby for his first game calling plays, IMO.

(09-25-2017, 09:52 AM)thillan Wrote: However, I will say that I think Mixon slipping on 3rd and 1 perfectly describes our year. He gets a 1st there, and it looks like our chances of winning are nearly 100%

While true, the DL had blown that play up too.  He would have hit Mixon as soon as he got the ball.  Russell Bodine is a turd.  Piano Man should be canned for that alone.

(09-25-2017, 09:54 AM)Wyche Wrote: Romo nailed his analysis of this team.  He also noted that Dalton's timing and rhythm is way off, and why that is so.  He said you don't have time to let plays develop.  I thought Lazor did a good job of getting him and the running game in a rhythm early.  A much better showing.  Hey, we lost to a HOFer on his home turf in OT.  Not too shabby for his first game calling plays, IMO.

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, Dalton made some mistakes yesterday but he also did enough for us to win. I think Lazor was obviously a huge improvement over Zampese. If you give Dalton the line he had in 2015, we're easily 3-0 and he's off to another MVP caliber season.

(09-25-2017, 09:58 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: Agreed. Don't get me wrong, Dalton made some mistakes yesterday but he also did enough for us to win. I think Lazor was obviously a huge improvement over Zampese. If you give Dalton the line he had in 2015, we're easily 3-0 and he's off to another MVP caliber season.

Agree 100%.  It's time to blow this up.

(09-25-2017, 09:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: We should have learned......they did the same thing with Palmer.

The problem with this team and the thing that has totally held it back from ever winning a playoff game let alone a superbowl is depending on an offensive lineman to be the field general of your offence. Marvin's success over the years has basically been having head coach style assistant coaches on his team. Zimmer, Gruden, Jackson and Joeseph all moving on. Gruden and Jackson were great leader/coaches on the offensive side of the ball. We had some good success with them. The on field leader is the thing that got me. During Palmer's great years in Cincy Willie Anderson was the undisputed leader of that offense. The side show of Chad Johnson and Terrell Owens couldn't overcome that when big Willie left. Last year Andrew Whitworth said he was giving up his leadership of the offence and handing it to Dalton. Even though Whitworth was still here, and I think the players still drifted to him for his leadership, you could start to see the crumbling of the offence. Now a lot of people just kind of wrote it off to the injuries we had but in all honesty I think the confidence in Zampese was modest at best. Now that Whitworth is gone and a non leader style offensive cooridinator we have what we have on offence. If Lazor accomplishes one thing it should be to establish a leadership role on offence. It's becoming very apperent that Dalton is just not up to that role. He just does not seem to be a take charge player on the field. I believe the Jon Kitna comparisons are spot on with Dalton but only in physical ability. I saw Kitna be more a leader on the field than I ever have Dalton or Palmer. If Dalton cannot change we will always be that team that will never win a playoff game. He simply cannot take HIS game to the next level. That level is getting your TEAM on the field to play at a different level. That's the main thing all the winning caliber QB's do. Cause lord knows we do not have a HEAD COACH that can do it. 

(09-25-2017, 09:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: EXACTLY.  So why do you let your oline go to shit knowing this?

Profit = Revenue - Expense

Gotta keep Expenses low.

Has it not sunk in yet that Marvin is the very epitome of the greatest Washington Generals coach of all time? Think about that a moment. If you had to design a coach to appear to have a pretty good team, but find ways to lose after staking your team to a comfortable lead going into half time Marvin would be your prototypical patsy.  

(09-25-2017, 10:03 AM)Wyche Wrote: Agree 100%.  It's time to blow this up.

The prospect of rebuilding solely through the draft is daunting. With the hit rate of draft picks being so low it could be years before we succeed.

The let’s run the ball and kill the clock for the second half reeked of Marvin. Playing not lose makes you, wait for it, lose


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(09-25-2017, 09:57 AM)Wyche Wrote: While true, the DL had blown that play up too.  He would have hit Mixon as soon as he got the ball.  Russell Bodine is a turd.  Piano Man should be canned for that alone.

Did you see the screen play where Bodine ran out in space, hit a S and fell on his face?  That is Jeffro in a nutshell.

(09-25-2017, 11:56 AM)McC Wrote: Did you see the screen play where Bodine ran out in space, hit a S and fell on his face?  That is Jeffro in a nutshell.

Was that Bodine or Boling? On one play the announcers were like look at Bodine out in front and it was Boling.

(09-25-2017, 10:03 AM)Wyche Wrote: Agree 100%.  It's time to blow this up.

Maybe start by blowing up the coaching staff and the OLine and see where that gets us.  With better coaching and a semblance of a line, this group of guys might be pretty good.