McC Wrote:If anything, it might cause him to take more power back.

That's the true worry.  Those of us that were old enough to remember how rough it was after Paul died remember screaming "just hand control to a football guy!"  He sloooooooooooowly finally did and the accountability issue still hasn't changed.  It's not that we're debating being content with average over terrible, it's that we fear any trust in another person's personnel decisions may be out the door if Marvin (and Tobin?) leave.  

So, on the surface I'd be content with a washup vet or fresh face that gets to make a few staff changes at least, but only time will tell if Mikey will really give him control...but finding out if he will give too long of a leash won't be found for what 3 or 4 years?  So barring a miracle, we should prepare for the next guy to keep the job for a while no matter how he does.  Mikey will only hire someone he believes in or believes he can control....who knows what he really want anymore.  For the short term, we have to hope the players are sparked just for the sake of change and the new guy actually wants to win games.  

(09-27-2017, 02:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Funny how a couple lucky drafts changed the narratives so much.

In the end, drafting Geno, Dunlap, Green and Dalton was like some guy hitting the powerball, squandering all the money in 5 years, and people calling him a financial genius. The Bengals got lucky and then had no idea what to do with their riches.

That's a great analogy. They should have fired Marvin after going 0-3 in the playoffs with that group.

What it all comes back to is the team is ok with mediocrity. They say they want to win. They do not invest all of their resources towards winning. Then, they spin it with PR as if there is some grand strategy to build a dynasty.

Afterall, the team we fielded this year was the result of saving money in free agency 2-3 years ago to have cap space to allow us to retain guys.

When you set a value for your own free agents and don't sign tier 2 and 3 free agents...you have to have a lot of good to great drafts. We haven't.

(09-27-2017, 12:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I know what you're saying, but for me, I have a huge suspicion the offensive line issues are due to decisions Lewis made. On top of that, Lewis has never really seemed to push for signing free agents. We know Brown doesn't like to do so, but it's imperative that sometimes, we need to sign quality free agents and I don't think Lewis seems to push for that. I don't want a GM that is going to be okay with just building through the draft. Add to that his flaws in picking coordinators and not replacing ineffectual coaches and I worry that he won't pick good coaches.

I used to be okay with the thought of being a GM because I think he does have a good eye for talent, but after much thought and considering what a GM's duties typically are, I just don't think Lewis would make a good one.

This was before Zeitler hit free agency:


“I don’t see it, I mean cause Kevin Zeitler turned down good money, turned down an offer that was something like $5.5 million per year average. But, you know, when you look at it, (Kelechi) Osemele got like $12 million bucks a year from the Oakland Raiders last year, as a guard. So Zeitler’s like, hmm. Osemele made the Pro Bowl team, Zeitler is second team. So Kevin Zeitler is thinking, I’ve gotta be eight, nine, 10, seven (million) worst case scenario. And not just Kevin, Kevin and his agents. But I don’t see the Bengals paying that kind of dollars to a guard when they have other guys they feel they can plug in and play,” Lapham said.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/1/3/14157272/dave-lapham-doesnt-see-bengals-re-signing-both-kevin-zeitler-and-andrew-whitworth

So DeCastro gets $10 million a year and the Bengals offer Zeitler $5.5 million a year!?!?


You think Lewis was like 'Let's lowball Zeitler! I want you to make more profit Bengals!'

(09-27-2017, 04:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's a great analogy. They should have fired Marvin after going 0-3 in the playoffs with that group.

What it all comes back to is the team is ok with mediocrity. They say they want to win. They do not invest all of their resources towards winning. Then, they spin it with PR as if there is some grand strategy to build a dynasty.

Afterall, the team we fielded this year was the result of saving money in free agency 2-3 years ago to have cap space to allow us to retain guys.

When you set a value for your own free agents and don't sign tier 2 and 3 free agents...you have to have a lot of good to great drafts. We haven't.

This reminds of a blurb I read before the draft. An NFL executive said that when it comes to the draft, you're looking for 2 starters. If you land 3, then you've had a great draft. Any more? It's just more icing on the cake. Since the Bengals avoid free agency like the plague, we need 3-4 players to wind up being starters for it to be a good draft.

(09-27-2017, 04:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This was before Zeitler hit free agency:


“I don’t see it, I mean cause Kevin Zeitler turned down good money, turned down an offer that was something like $5.5 million per year average. But, you know, when you look at it, (Kelechi) Osemele got like $12 million bucks a year from the Oakland Raiders last year, as a guard. So Zeitler’s like, hmm. Osemele made the Pro Bowl team, Zeitler is second team. So Kevin Zeitler is thinking, I’ve gotta be eight, nine, 10, seven (million) worst case scenario. And not just Kevin, Kevin and his agents. But I don’t see the Bengals paying that kind of dollars to a guard when they have other guys they feel they can plug in and play,” Lapham said.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/1/3/14157272/dave-lapham-doesnt-see-bengals-re-signing-both-kevin-zeitler-and-andrew-whitworth

So DeCastro gets $10 million a year and the Bengals offer Zeitler $5.5 million a year!?!?


You think Lewis was like 'Let's lowball Zeitler! I want you to make more profit Bengals!'

No, but he clearly didn't fight hard enough and tell Brown, "Hey, make sure you re-sign Zeitler, even if it costs a little extra."

Mike Brown is a sorry/misery vampire. The sadder he makes us, the more life he has.

He will outlive us all, talking about how he sure wants to bring a SB to Cincinnati, which is why he went Frankenstein on Marvin Lewis to make him the eternal HC of the Bengals, and let all his good players leave for those sweet sweet comp picks which he is sure will pay off in that elusive playoff win sometime in the next thousand years or so.

(09-27-2017, 04:16 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: This reminds of a blurb I read before the draft. An NFL executive said that when it comes to the draft, you're looking for 2 starters. If you land 3, then you've had a great draft. Any more? It's just more icing on the cake. Since the Bengals avoid free agency like the plague, we need 3-4 players to wind up being starters for it to be a good draft.

That's always been my thoughts. And I mean 2 good starters...not Bodine being forced to start because we had no one better.

(09-27-2017, 04:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, but he clearly didn't fight hard enough and tell Brown, "Hey, make sure you re-sign Zeitler, even if it costs a little extra."

Shouldn't your GM know that already? THAT'S the problem.

And the Bengals offerred Zeitler $5.5 million a year. A little extra than that...wouldn't get it done.

(09-27-2017, 04:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Shouldn't your GM know that already? THAT'S the problem.

And the Bengals offerred Zeitler $5.5 million a year. A little extra than that...wouldn't get it done.

The point being, Marvin Lewis didn't seem to be all that upset about letting Zeitler walk. 

(09-27-2017, 04:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The point being, Marvin Lewis didn't seem to be all that upset about letting Zeitler walk. 

What's he going to do...speak out in the paper calling the Bengals cheap? Say that it destroyed the team?

Marvin has been assimilated into the Bengals culture after being here 15 years.

(09-27-2017, 04:32 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What's he going to do...speak out in the paper calling the Bengals cheap? Say that it destroyed the team?

Marvin has been assimilated into the Bengals culture after being here 15 years.

Yes, he can speak out. He's on the last year of his contract. What's Brown going to do, fire him?

I'm starting to think that Lewis is pulling a Cowher. I think it was Cowher. He retired a year before he told everyone, IMO. It became pretty evident during what became his last season, he was just going through the motions. I feel like I'm seeing that with Marvin.

(09-27-2017, 04:53 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes, he can speak out. He's on the last year of his contract. What's Brown going to do, fire him?

I'm starting to think that Lewis is pulling a Cowher. I think it was Cowher. He retired a year before he told everyone, IMO. It became pretty evident during what became his last season, he was just going through the motions. I feel like I'm seeing that with Marvin.

I don't think any coach would win with this roster. The line is bad. The secondary isn't that good. The TE's are weak with fragile Eifert. The team can't run the ball.

It's a mess.

They lost 6-7 quality starters in free agency over the past 2 seasons. That hurts a team.

(09-26-2017, 12:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I love how people think that turning the team over to his daughter will yield totally different results.

She's learned the business from her dad for HER ENTIRE LIFE.

What makes you think during that training that she developed drastically different views from his?

Because she only cares about the business side not the football side... I would guess first thing she would do is hire a GM.