(09-28-2017, 03:05 AM)GodFather Wrote: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/09/26/nfl-hot-seat-rankings-marvin-lewis-winless-cincinnati-bengals-chuck-pagano-colts/705588001/

“1. Marvin Lewis, Cincinnati Bengals: NFL Media reported Sunday morning that owner Mike Brown had previously "informed the coaching staff that the talent is not the problem" with his winless team. Then, despite their best performance of the season at Green Bay, the Bengals subsequently fell to 0-3, virtually guaranteeing consecutive seasons outside of the playoffs for lame duck Lewis, who's never won a postseason game in 14 years on the job. Last week: 1”

Anyone else hear that Mike Brown is actually saying this? C’mon Mikey pull the trigger and make a statement on your 50th anniversary that the fans don’t have to endure a full season of Lewis at head coach!

Reason # 2,742,018 why Mike Brown should not be a GM in any sport in any era if he believes the offensive line he built is adequate.

He lost the two best Olinemen in FA. Signed retread Andre Smith. Then drafted two offensive skill players in the first two rounds of the draft with injury or character concerns. I've seen this movie before and know the ending. Twenty-six years on the job and he still hasn't learned a damn thing.

No coach would have done better if saddled with this GM/owner. The problem isn't the talent, the problem isn't the coaching. The problem is how you run the team as GM and owner, Mike. Twenty-six years and there is one common denominator.

(09-28-2017, 11:06 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Honestly I think this may be the case. Think about it. What is the biggest issue (maybe the only real issue) with this team?

People are ripping Mike Brown (myself included) for not spending on o-line, but maybe in Mike's mind "we have the talent" already, just like he supposedly said in OP's quote.

That talent would be Ogbuehi, Fisher and Bodine. High picks and a guy we traded up for, all hand selected by the ivory tickler himself.

I feel the reality is this teams coaching needs a new HC and let HIM build the other coaches he sees fit to take this team further than a first round playoff game. Piano man needs to go with Marvin. 

I also feel this 50th year celebration and a team that is in the top 5 bottom in the NFL is an embarrassment to Mike and finally feels how the fans have year after year losing in the first round of the playoffs....year after year letting Shitsburgh get the best of us. I hope he feels the pain of what Bengal fans feel week after week.

If Mr. Burns doesnt believe talent is the problem, then how the funk does PA still have a job.

(09-28-2017, 12:08 PM)GodFather Wrote: I feel the reality is this teams coaching needs a new HC and let HIM build the other coaches he sees fit to take this team further than a first round playoff game. Piano man needs to go with Marvin. 

I also feel this 50th year celebration and a team that is in the top 5 bottom in the NFL is an embarrassment to Mike and finally feels how the fans have year after year losing in the first round of the playoffs....year after year letting Shitsburgh get the best of us. I hope he feels the pain of what Bengal fans feel week after week.

I agree. I was just saying I can see Mike Brown putting the bulk of blame on Paul Alexander, while (maybe) letting Marv off the hook.

IMO, Paul Alexander thoroughly earned his pink slip after 2016, and Marv has been long overdue.

In Mike's mind though, losing in the playoffs isn't a big deal, and the reason we're losing right now is clearly the o-line more than Marvin.

(09-28-2017, 12:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I agree. I was just saying I can see Mike Brown putting the bulk of blame on Paul Alexander, while (maybe) letting Marv off the hook.

IMO, Paul Alexander thoroughly earned his pink slip after 2016, and Marv has been long overdue.

In Mike's mind though, losing in the playoffs isn't a big deal, and the reason we're losing right now is clearly the o-line more than Marvin.

He seems enamored with 1st round picks. Look how many busts we sign from other teams.

The hit rate is about 50% for 1st Round picks. To expect both Ced and Fisher to become high level starters just wasn't realistic.

(09-28-2017, 11:45 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Reason # 2,742,018 why Mike Brown should not be a GM in any sport in any era if he believes the offensive line he built is adequate.

He lost the two best Olinemen in FA. Signed retread Andre Smith. Then drafted two offensive skill players in the first two rounds of the draft with injury or character concerns. I've seen this movie before and know the ending. Twenty-six years on the job and he still hasn't learned a damn thing.

No coach would have done better if saddled with this GM/owner. The problem isn't the talent, the problem isn't the coaching. The problem is how you run the team as GM and owner, Mike. Twenty-six years and there is one common denominator.

Dunno.

We heard PA (who I think I'm his last supporter) say the 2016 line couldn't get any better because the improvements needed to happen in the off-season. We had the off-season, and the line got worse. 

Brown's statement may not have been entirely directed at any single coach. Maybe it was all of them. Without any context, who knows. Maybe he was specifically referring to PA and the line. Maybe it was to Zampesse, who is already gone. Maybe it was Marvin.

I guess the only way we know for sure is to keep losing. Which, I don't want to happen. I've been Marvin's biggest critic at times and would love to have a decent HC. But I don't want to lose more games to have that happen. I remember the 90s. Losing is a culture. Once you develop it, it's hard to overcome. That's, in my opinion, a big part of our playoff issue. We have a culture where 'getting there is good enough.' 

You know what would truly piss a bunch of people off?

Bengals lose to the Browns.
Mike Brown fires Marvin Lewis.
Sets Paul Alexander up as interim head coach.
The Bengals win a few games but still get the number one overall pick.
Mike Brown holds a news conference stating that Paul Alexander did a good job as interim coach that he's been signed to a five year deal to coach the Bengals.

LOL.

(09-28-2017, 12:32 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: You know what would truly piss a bunch of people off?

Bengals lose to the Browns.
Mike Brown fires Marvin Lewis.
Sets Paul Alexander up as interim head coach.
The Bengals win a few games but still get the number one overall pick.
Mike Brown holds a news conference stating that Paul Alexander did a good job as interim coach that he's been signed to a five year deal to coach the Bengals.

LOL.

My head might explode.

If we're still 0-fer at the BYE, look for changes to be made.

Btw, it will NOT be PA taking over the HC position. He's barely competent enough (IMO he's not at all) to be the OL coach and even someone as jaded as Mike Brown knows this.

The interim will be either Guenther or Urban.

(09-28-2017, 12:32 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: You know what would truly piss a bunch of people off?

Bengals lose to the Browns.
Mike Brown fires Marvin Lewis.
Sets Paul Alexander up as interim head coach.
The Bengals win a few games but still get the number one overall pick.
Mike Brown holds a news conference stating that Paul Alexander did a good job as interim coach that he's been signed to a five year deal to coach the Bengals.

LOL.

If that were to happen, I would not only quit on the Bengals... I would burn every single piece of Bengal apparel I have in a Facebook live video like all these redneck steeler fans or doing because if the flag issue 

Marvin is fine until he isn't. If he pulls a massive turn around on this season like I think he will just making playoffs and losing again I still want him gone. If he wins a playoff game you can retain him otherwise he needs to go

(09-28-2017, 10:39 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you say culture change and talk about a new HC...but company culture is set at the top of the organization down. Which is why we've lost for 26+ years. Changing the coaches is putting paint on a wall with cracks in it.

The same management team that reportedly offered Zeitler $5.5 million a year after DeCastro signed for $10 million will still be in place. And don't you think that demotivates the current players here when they see one of their own low-balled by that much? Maybe if the Bengals offered $8 or $9 million I could see it...but $5.5 million??? That's 2005 salary numbers.

Believe me my friend I understand that 100,000,000%, the top is the true problem.  But we have basically no hope of Mike Brown and the Bengals F.O. changing !

Perhaps, just maybe, if we can get a new HC in here somehow, someway, maybe he can get Mike to buy into accountability ? Maybe, just maybe some one can get Mike to understand you can't compete in todays NFL with an O-line coach that teaches them to stand up and catch the defender while letting the D dictate where they're going.

Perhaps, just maybe the new guy can convince Mike that players like Pac Man hurt way more than they help ?

What else can we hope for ?

(09-28-2017, 12:27 PM)Benton Wrote: Dunno.

We heard PA (who I think I'm his last supporter) say the 2016 line couldn't get any better because the improvements needed to happen in the off-season. We had the off-season, and the line got worse. 

Brown's statement may not have been entirely directed at any single coach. Maybe it was all of them. Without any context, who knows. Maybe he was specifically referring to PA and the line. Maybe it was to Zampesse, who is already gone. Maybe it was Marvin.

I guess the only way we know for sure is to keep losing. Which, I don't want to happen. I've been Marvin's biggest critic at times and would love to have a decent HC. But I don't want to lose more games to have that happen. I remember the 90s. Losing is a culture. Once you develop it, it's hard to overcome. That's, in my opinion, a big part of our playoff issue. We have a culture where 'getting there is good enough.' 

As GM, Mike is responsible for the talent. If the problem isn't talent, then it's coaching. If it's coaching, it took Mike 15 years of Marvin to figure that out. Even longer if he is referring to Alexander. If it was Zampese, what did we learn about Zampese after Week 2 we didn't know about Zampese after Week 16 last season? As a GM/owner, Mike is responsible for the coaching staff.

The thing about Brown is he says he doesn't want to be the guy who tosses guys to the streets and I can appreciate that, but suppose he's your landlord and you get sick, lose your job or for any number of reasons beyond your control does anyone think he's going to let you live in your home rent free or in any way subsidize your living arrangements? I doubt it. 
There are plenty of players who end up on the streets he doesn't seem to care about because perhaps they're not good enough so there has to be something else to it.
We hear all the time about the evils of picking winners and losers, but when the head loser gets to pick suddenly it's alright? It's ok though because he's rich and of course being rich he must be smarter than the rest of us..
I dunno folks..something ain't white in the rice.. Too much pepper is in it or something.. He is after all part of the extreme 1%ers where there really is no accountability. He could, if he wanted just move the team anywhere he wanted to as long as his 31 other buddies go along with it. We could potentially be the Antarctica Bengals and there's not a damned thing we could do about it and there would still be fans who would pay for luxury sky boxes and be flown to Antarctica every other Sunday. Scary when you think about it..   

(09-28-2017, 12:32 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: You know what would truly piss a bunch of people off?

Bengals lose to the Browns.
Mike Brown fires Marvin Lewis.
Sets Paul Alexander up as interim head coach.
The Bengals win a few games but still get the number one overall pick.
Mike Brown holds a news conference stating that Paul Alexander did a good job as interim coach that he's been signed to a five year deal to coach the Bengals.

LOL.

Alexander will be HC and still coach the OL too.

There is a chance this could happen. I'd say maybe 10%.

(09-28-2017, 10:17 AM)Synric Wrote: Lol its funny

All we hear all the time is..."Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis never hold anyone accountable." Both do so in following weeks and we get two different threads bashing them for that very reason.

Ummm... I am waiting on them to hold each other accountable. Firing someone for your negligence is NOT accountability. It's quite the opposite.

I'm going to take this as a positive in that Brown is considering firing Lewis AND firing him mid-season. I don't worry that if MB does, he will not go through with a coaching search in the offseason. I DO worry, he might give too much thought to whomever the interim HC was and not do a thorough coaching search.

BTW, is it possible that Brown is correct on the talent? Aside from the OL, we do have some decent-to-good talent. But, even with the OL, are the problems fixable? How much of the issues with the OL are due to mental errors and technique? I'm honestly asking.

(09-28-2017, 12:32 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: You know what would truly piss a bunch of people off?

Bengals lose to the Browns.
Mike Brown fires Marvin Lewis.
Sets Paul Alexander up as interim head coach.
The Bengals win a few games but still get the number one overall pick.
Mike Brown holds a news conference stating that Paul Alexander did a good job as interim coach that he's been signed to a five year deal to coach the Bengals.

LOL.

I already said I'd be done with the franchise if Russell Bodine is the starting C next year. if PA were to be the HC, he'd very likely push to keep Bodine and keep him as the starter.
So if that happened, ADIOS!

(09-28-2017, 01:32 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm going to take this as a positive in that Brown is considering firing Lewis AND firing him mid-season. I don't worry that if MB does, he will not go through with a coaching search in the offseason. I DO worry, he might give too much thought to whomever the interim HC was and not do a thorough coaching search.

BTW, is it possible that Brown is correct on the talent? Aside from the OL, we do have some decent-to-good talent. But, even with the OL, are the problems fixable? How much of the issues with the OL are due to mental errors and technique? I'm honestly asking.

Aside from the O-Line and TE...the team is good enough to win a playoff game.

BUT, the offensive line is 5 guys. We have 4 subpar guys there and it destroys the running game and timing on offense.

It's kind of like having a Lamborghini and putting a Ford Escort motor in it and wondering why you aren't winning races. You look really fast, but don't perform well.

(09-28-2017, 01:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Aside from the O-Line and TE...the team is good enough to win a playoff game.

BUT, the offensive line is 5 guys. We have 4 subpar guys there and it destroys the running game and timing on offense.

It's kind of like having a Lamborghini and putting a Ford Escort motor in it and wondering why you aren't winning races. You look really fast, but don't perform well.

.....or, in the sense of protecting your QB, it's like leaving your Bugatti Veyron parked on the curb in the slums of Detroit with the key in the ignition.