(10-01-2017, 07:09 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Just stop. It wasn't QB play that was bad the first two weeks (which he did play bad), but it is extremely obvious that the biggest thing is the play calling. Don't you think it's funny that Dalton hasn't had a sub 100 passer rating game since Lazor took over? Nah, that couldn't be it at all. It wasn't like the players wanted him gone or anything.

uuuuuhhhhhhmmmmmmm..............

Ok

(10-01-2017, 07:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: uuuuuhhhhhhmmmmmmm..............

Ok

The play calling made Dalton look bad. It's very obvious. Why do you think Dalton looked like a MVP candidate with Hue in 2015 and now starting to look like one with Lazor his first two games with him? Zampese was holding the offense back a ton. That's what I'm getting at.

(10-01-2017, 06:39 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Right. It's the Browns, so it doesn't count. I doubt people will count the Bills either.

Yet McCarron fans sure counted Mac's 2 wins against terrible teams.

I would definitely count the Bills if we pull that shit off.

(10-01-2017, 06:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Let's keep it real. If you took part in the Dalton bash fest the last few weeks, your face is covered in egg right now.

The difference in Dalton (and the entire offense) since Lazor replaced Zampese is undeniable. Sure the o-line is still an issue, but Lazor has done a better job scheming around it. People talk like Dalton has as many bad games as good ones. Get real. It's not even close.

How about this. Next time Andy has a shitty day (which happens around once or twice a season) maybe we use some common sense and realize that good QBs have off days. You can name almost any QB and I can give you a list of bad games.

Although I've not partook in the AD bashing, you can't blame those who have. A play is a play, but if your a leader, you adjust and play your game. He failed to do so and pretty much played like shit!

(10-01-2017, 07:09 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Just stop. It wasn't QB play that was bad the first two weeks (which he did play bad), but it is extremely obvious that the biggest thing is the play calling. Don't you think it's funny that Dalton hasn't had a sub 100 passer rating game since Lazor took over? Nah, that couldn't be it at all. It wasn't like the players wanted him gone or anything.

Dont get excited till we beat someone respectable. But I agree. I think AD will get better each game. In time to matter? IDK. However, he's not a rookie so he should have checked most of this shit to begin with. Might be 3-1.

(10-01-2017, 07:20 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Not only just Dalton's performance, but the fact that we've now scored 7 TDs in 2 weeks with Lazor after not being able to sniff the EZ in 2 weeks with Zampese. Plus we were awful in the RZ with Zamp last year. The difference is clear, as is the reason for that difference.

I will say this though, we still can't run block for shit and they probably just need to fully abandon the Og experiment. Keep Andre out there.

Nah, it's all Dalton's fault ! 

Just think where Mike and Marvin could be running a team if it weren't for Dalton holding them back ?

(10-01-2017, 07:24 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The play calling made Dalton look bad. It's very obvious. Why do you think Dalton looked like a MVP candidate with Hue in 2015 and now starting to look like one with Lazor his first two games with him? Zampese was holding the offense bad a ton. That's what I'm getting at.

Nope, Andy made Andy look bad the first couple weeks. It does appear he is more suited to Lazor's play calling or else received a wake up call of sorts. 

My point is: Every one said it was the Oline that kept him from excelling, now it is the OC. Bottom line: Andy got off to a crappy start; yet has done great the last couple weeks. Let's hope what every forces that allow Andy to do well (because we know Andy has no control over it) do it for the rest of the year.

(10-01-2017, 07:24 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The play calling made Dalton look bad. It's very obvious. Why do you think Dalton looked like a MVP candidate with Hue in 2015 and now starting to look like one with Lazor his first two games with him? Zampese was holding the offense back a ton. That's what I'm getting at.

Andy's entire career has been inconsistent. You point to one year (he had inconsistent performances in 2015 as well) and stand on it as if that was some norm for him.

He's had horrific games... lots of them. And typically big ones. He's good or very good just as often as he's bad or very bad.

I get being a fan, but maybe come up for air every once in a while. He was the worst QB in the NFL the first 2 games, OC or not. Watching the games, it wasn't the play being called. He sucked. Now he has 1 good half against the Packers followed by a bad one, and then a great game against the Browns who are 1-19 over the last 2 seasons and you're all hyped? Pffffft!

Last week some guy named jacoby Brissett went 17/24 for 259 a TD & a rating of 94.3 against the Browns. They're the worst team in the NFl by miles. The Browns 2ndary has NOTHING back there. T.Y. Hlton looked like Jerry Rice last week.

The chest beating over 1 good game from AD who now has a whopping 6 TDs & 4 INTs in 4 games is a little premature. Lets see how he does against the Bills, a strong defensive team, before we get all pumped.

(10-01-2017, 07:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, Andy made Andy look bad the first couple weeks. It does appear he is more suited to Lazor's play calling or else received a wake up call of sorts. 

My point is: Every one said it was the Oline that kept him from excelling, now it is the OC. Bottom line: Andy got off to a crappy start; yet has done great the last couple weeks. Let's hope what every forces that allow Andy to do well (because we know Andy has no control over it) do it for the rest of the year.

So are you trying to say that the OC has no effect on QB play? I know you're smarter than that Bfine. Play calling, rhythm, and adjustments are HUGE factors in how well the QB is going to play.

Everyone say that Zampese and the OL were keeping him from excelling. The majority of Bengals fans didn't like Zampese from day 1. Most people knew it was an issue before the season started. The players even knew that it was a big issue, and that's why they had a near mutiny. You're fighting a loosing battle here Bfine.

(10-01-2017, 07:27 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Although I've not partook in the AD bashing, you can't blame those who have. A play is a play, but if your a leader, you adjust and play your game. He failed to do so and pretty much played like shit!

Harley you're my dude, but yes I can blame people for acting foolish over 2 games that led to the Bengals canning a coordinator for the first time in team history.

If people were just pointing out that Dalton played like crap for 2 games, I'd understand...but he continues to get zero benefit of the doubt. People were calling for McCarron or to draft a new QB after 2 games. That's ridiculous to me after the career Dalton has had thus far.

I was one of very few people on here that did give Andy benefit if the doubt, and did wonder of the problems were related to o-line and the previous coordinator's inability to scheme around it.

Yeah I'm tooting my horn right now, but the pitchforks were out in force for 2 weeks and now it looks like I was right. People need to stop constantly doubting this guy and thinking we need a QB every time he has a bad game (which isn't nearly as common as some claim). Especially when we all knew we had big problems going into this season.

(10-01-2017, 07:36 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Andy's entire career has been inconsistent. You point to one year (he had inconsistent performances in 2015 as well) and stand on it as if that was some norm for him.

He's had horrific games... lots of them. And typically big ones. He's good or very good just as often as he's bad or very bad.

I get being a fan, but maybe come up for air every once in a while. He was the worst QB in the NFL the first 2 games, OC or not. Watching the games, it wasn't the play being called. He sucked. Now he has 1 good half against the Packers followed by a bad one, and then a great game against the Browns who are 1-19 over the last 2 seasons and you're all hyped? Pffffft!

Last week some guy named jacoby Brissett went 17/24 for 259 a TD & a rating of 94.3 against the Browns. They're the worst team in the NFl by miles. The Browns 2ndary has NOTHING back there. T.Y. Hlton looked like Jerry Rice last week.

The chest beating over 1 good game from AD who now has a whopping 6 TDs & 4 INTs in 4 games is a little premature. Lets see how he does against the Bills, a strong defensive team, before we get all pumped.

Stop, Dalton has had WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more good games than bad ones. He rarely has bad games anymore. Dalton has played well most of his career. It's not like it was a fluke the way he played in 2015. In 2013 when he actually had decent weapons he was 3rd in TDs and 7th in yards. In 2016 he played well even with a horrible OL and OC.

(10-01-2017, 07:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, Andy made Andy look bad the first couple weeks. It does appear he is more suited to Lazor's play calling or else received a wake up call of sorts. 

My point is: Every one said it was the Oline that kept him from excelling, now it is the OC. Bottom line: Andy got off to a crappy start; yet has done great the last couple weeks. Let's hope what every forces that allow Andy to do well (because we know Andy has no control over it) do it for the rest of the year.

I've never seen anyone switch an argument up like you claim. Most have been saying that Zampese AND the o-line were both problems. Are we honestly going to pretend they weren't?

As for an OC's affect on QB play, ask Matt Stafford and Jim Bob Cooter about that. Or just look at our last 4 games and the obvious contrast.

Dalton is an above average QB...he'll have about 2-3 really great games in a season. About 10 average to above average ones. Then 2-3 bad games.

When he has the great games, people argue that he is an elite QB. When he has the bad games, they want rid of him.

When he has the average games, the arguments are split and it depends on if we win or lose.

(10-01-2017, 07:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dalton is an above average QB...he'll have about 2-3 really great games in a season. About 10 average to above average ones. Then 2-3 bad games.

When he has the great games, people argue that he is an elite QB. When he has the bad games, they want rid of him.

When he has the average games, the arguments are split and it depends on if we win or lose.

The only thing I disagree with is that he's had an equal number of great games and horrible ones.

I'll look into it when I have time, but I know Dalton has way more 100+ rating games than ones where he's sub 60.

(09-30-2017, 01:25 PM)McC Wrote: I don't know who this Mo guy is--a Stooge, I guess.  But I'd like to see how well he could do his job if his sound man sukked and his producer was being pushed back into his face all day.

Radio talking heads are one step above internet blogger.

As Bob Knight opined...."....one step above prostitution."

Blandy had a, woops Andy had a very good game today. Granted it was against a bad Browns team with a below average pass defense, but he was very good nonetheless.

People shouldnt discount him because of that either like how some were discounting Watson having a good game against the Patriots terrible pass D in his 3rd game. The same Watson that had a great day today as well.

(10-01-2017, 05:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Or maybe it was just that Zampese was awful and Dalton is and always has been a good QB?

Nah....couldn't be could it?

On a side note ...rotating Andre at both tackles seems to be working quite well.  Lazor has been creative in trying to mask the shit up front.

(10-01-2017, 05:49 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: Agreed, but I guess the next time Andy has a shitty day it'll have to be the new guy's fault.  Andy had a good game, let's leave it at that.  

Dalton's been rough....but everyone and their mother has said Zampese was in way over his head....hell even the Bengals THEMSELVES had doubts about him after 2016. Then....they brang him back for 2017. Bungals doing Bungals things.

(10-01-2017, 07:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The only thing I disagree with is that he's had an equal number of great games and horrible ones.

I'll look into it when I have time, but I know Dalton has way more 100+ rating games than ones where he's sub 60.

Including the 4 games of 2017, Andy Dalton has had 38 games with a passer rating of 100 or higher and 11 games with a passer rating below 60.

(10-01-2017, 06:39 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Right. It's the Browns, so it doesn't count. I doubt people will count the Bills either.

Yet McCarron fans sure counted Mac's 2 wins against terrible teams.

You mean the playoff caliber Blaine Gabbert led 9ers....and those awesome Ryan Mallette led Ravens?

(10-01-2017, 07:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Harley you're my dude, but yes I can blame people for acting foolish over 2 games that led to the Bengals canning a coordinator for the first time in team history.

If people were just pointing out that Dalton played like crap for 2 games, I'd understand...but he continues to get zero benefit of the doubt. People were calling for McCarron or to draft a new QB after 2 games. That's ridiculous to me after the career Dalton has had thus far.

I was one of very few people on here that did give Andy benefit if the doubt, and did wonder of the problems were related to o-line and the previous coordinator's inability to scheme around it.

Yeah I'm tooting my horn right now, but the pitchforks were out in force for 2 weeks and now it looks like I was right. People need to stop constantly doubting this guy and thinking we need a QB every time he has a bad game (which isn't nearly as common as some claim). Especially when we all knew we had big problems going into this season.

Shake N Blake? Your my dude (you always say that when your going to disagree with me). I get your point my Bengal brother. However, I think if your A.D., you've got to call your game. He's been in this thing long enough to take the reigns. Andy did play like crap. The OL shit on his capabilities and his timing, he looked as he was playing in fear. He has the ability to control that at the line. Although, he may not be able to, or used to, audibling out? He's still the captain and should have done what he thought he should do to win. I still have faith in him because he is a good QB. He would be better without Marvin. When he is on? He's clutch. When he's not? OMFG!

(10-01-2017, 08:02 PM)Wyche Wrote: Dalton's been rough....but everyone and their mother has said Zampese was in way over his head....hell even the Bengals THEMSELVES had doubts about him after 2016. Then....they brang him back for 2017. Bungals doing Bungals things.

Unfortunately, the one constant we can count on around here.