I'm sure nobody really remembers me from last year but anyways a few things I got to get off my chest about this team.

1) Andy Dalton - we've watched Dalton for a good 6 years now. We should all know what he is and really nothing has changed from when we drafted him.  He is just a more polished version of the Tcu guy we drafted. I'll be the first to admit ,I've never liked his talents ,except 2015 I thought he turned into more of a competitor and became better . Now I realized that was Hues fast throwing,one read system ,with good weapons all the way around him and really,that offense could of been even better I thought. I thought that was the closest we've seen the offense look good compared to 2005 with the putting up points and come backs.

Andy Dalton I keep hearing is a pocket passer and I got to say , no he ISNT. he is at his best at predetermined throws,fast read system. If you ask him to be a pocket passer like what we had in Carson Palmer ,he's going to fail more often then not. His accuracy is inconsistent sometimes horrible, if you ask him to drop back and scan the field ,he doesn't have the pocket presence ,height , footwork , manuverabily with his feet within the pocket to be a true pocket passer. He isn't a fast runner but he can skamper for a good ten here and there . This is what he is. If you ask him to be a drop back passer ,and his accuracy is off,that's where he's became bad Andy. Add rain being a factor in the playoffs and we have 0 playoff wins .

2 - Coaching- deep down I feel we have a fighters chance of at least winning a playoff game or two with Dalton. But the coaching frustrates me to no end. I feel Marvin or Mike refuses to replace guys that needs replaced and this has been going on forever!! Center Russell Bodine is a sorry excuse for a center he has to be near the bottom of starting centers yet you continue to trot him out there year after year. Even if we don't get no push in the run game ,and he gets pushed back into Dalton. There has to be somebody better out there to replace this scrub. Can we win a Superbowl with Bodine ,I highly highly doubt it. Another scrub which a smart football mind Joe Goodberry even says is a bum, Brandon Lafell. What has he done here really to take all the snaps here at #2. You got more speed and size with Core and Malone sitting in the bench!!! Like Wtf these type of guys starting is going to be our down fall. Lafell can't even block !! But if John Ross comes back after the bye weak he might get a very small role. Like WTH has Ross earned that Malone and Core hasn't. These are two guys that could stretch the field and make us better. Also Mike Brown fox you want to win? Where's that emergency money at we could use somebody like a tight end or o lineman. They finally realized MJ wasn't getting it done,and Will Jackson got more snaps last week,wow finally. I feel we have a playoff Team if the coaching gets smart and Dalton continues to improve. With maybe a couple of additions of Ross and Eifhurt later. Just go to John Ross highlight videos ,and people are saying wow , Cincinnati is about to have a top offense.  We should !! We should be Superbowl Bound if things went right. You got to be smart ,you can't win a ring being non football smart.

Who Dey thanks for reading, Sunday is a Must Win.

Preaching to the choir:

1 ) Above average to average QB.
2 ) Organizational complacency that is trying to win despite themselves.

The same GM is in place that hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years and fans all expect the results to be different each year.

(10-05-2017, 01:23 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: I'm sure nobody really remembers me from last year but anyways a few things I got to get off my chest about this team.

1) Andy Dalton - we've watched Dalton for a good 6 years now. We should all know what he is and really nothing has changed from when we drafted him.  He is just a more polished version of the Tcu guy we drafted. I'll be the first to admit ,I've never liked his talents ,except 2015 I thought he turned into more of a competitor and became better . Now I realized that was Hues fast throwing,one read system ,with good weapons all the way around him and really,that offense could of been even better I thought. I thought that was the closest we've seen the offense look good compared to 2005 with the putting up points and come backs.

Andy Dalton I keep hearing is a pocket passer and I got to say , no he ISNT. he is at his best at predetermined throws,fast read system. If you ask him to be a pocket passer like what we had in Carson Palmer ,he's going to fail more often then not. His accuracy is inconsistent sometimes horrible, if you ask him to drop back and scan the field ,he doesn't have the pocket presence ,height , footwork , manuverabily with his feet within the pocket to be a true pocket passer. He isn't a fast runner but he can skamper for a good ten here and there . This is what he is. If you ask him to be a drop back passer ,and his accuracy is off,that's where he's became bad Andy. Add rain being a factor in the playoffs and we have 0 playoff wins .

2 - Coaching- deep down I feel we have a fighters chance of at least winning a playoff game or two with Dalton. But the coaching frustrates me to no end. I feel Marvin or Mike refuses to replace guys that needs replaced and this has been going on forever!! Center Russell Bodine is a sorry excuse for a center he has to be near the bottom of starting centers yet you continue to trot him out there year after year. Even if we don't get no push in the run game ,and he gets pushed back into Dalton. There has to be somebody better out there to replace this scrub. Can we win a Superbowl with Bodine ,I highly highly doubt it. Another scrub which a smart football mind Joe Goodberry even says is a bum, Brandon Lafell. What has he done here really to take all the snaps here at #2. You got more speed and size with Core and Malone sitting in the bench!!! Like Wtf these type of guys starting is going to be our down fall. Lafell can't even block !! But if John Ross comes back after the bye weak he might get a very small role. Like WTH has Ross earned that Malone and Core hasn't. These are two guys that could stretch the field and make us better. Also Mike Brown fox you want to win? Where's that emergency money at we could use somebody like a tight end or o lineman. They finally realized MJ wasn't getting it done,and Will Jackson got more snaps last week,wow finally. I feel we have a playoff Team if the coaching gets smart and Dalton continues to improve. With maybe a couple of additions of Ross and Eifhurt later. Just go to John Ross highlight videos ,and people are saying wow , Cincinnati is about to have a top offense.  We should !! We should be Superbowl Bound if things went right. You got to be smart ,you can't win a ring being non football smart.

Who Dey thanks for reading, Sunday is a Must Win.

Yep....I'll say Dalton can be better in the pocket and scanning the field when he's protected, and when an OC can scheme around the line's deficiencies.  Hue Jackson had nothing but good things to say about 14 prior to the Browns game, tells me all I need to know.  As you noted, when the pressure is consistent, he struggles.  He begins to get in a rush, and has problems even when the pressure is not there.  He allows his "clock" to get off, and misses open receivers, etc.  Lazor has been able to scheme around the o line deficiencies and get Dalton in a rhythm, and it shows.

As Pistons noted, preaching to the choir, but good observations, nonetheless.

I'll keep saying it. We're a league loss leader, a team designed to never win the big game, just good enough to win some and keep people from noticing we're a loss leader. The big market teams have to have someone to play and beat. That's our role, the Washington Generals of the NFL. 
If we ever win the super bowl with Mikey boy the whole world would crash and burn and female breasts would no longer be attractive. Dogs would start meowing and housecats would be guarding the fences of prisons. 

(10-05-2017, 10:59 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yep....I'll say Dalton can be better in the pocket and scanning the field when he's protected, and when an OC can scheme around the line's deficiencies.  Hue Jackson had nothing but good things to say about 14 prior to the Browns game, tells me all I need to know.  As you noted, when the pressure is consistent, he struggles.  He begins to get in a rush, and has problems even when the pressure is not there.  He allows his "clock" to get off, and misses open receivers, etc.  Lazor has been able to scheme around the o line deficiencies and get Dalton in a rhythm, and it shows.

As Pistons noted, preaching to the choir, but good observations, nonetheless.

I think Jackson shows how a coach/QB can't overcome a bad organization.

The board looks at Jackson as superior to Marvin, but Marvin went to a team as bad as the Browns are now and turned them into a Winner. It's Year 2 for Jackson and he's 1-19 there.

(10-05-2017, 11:28 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think Jackson shows how a coach/QB can't overcome a bad organization.

The board looks at Jackson as superior to Marvin, but Marvin went to a team as bad as the Browns are now and turned them into a Winner. It's Year 2 for Jackson and he's 1-19 there.

Good point.  We're better than the Browns shit storm, that is for sure.....in fact, we're a decent franchise.  If our owner would quit meddling, and actually participate in FA, this had/has the makings of a very good team.

I'll add to that Pistons, that Marv is a decent coach.  That said, his ultra-conservatism, not having us prepared for big games, and not injecting youth into the lineup when he should is what irks me.  As much as I loathe Son of Paul, this team has had the talent to win at least one damn playoff game by now.

(10-05-2017, 11:37 AM)Wyche Wrote: I'll add to that Pistons, that Marv is a decent coach.  That said, his ultra-conservatism, not having us prepared for big games, and not injecting youth into the lineup when he should is what irks me.  As much as I loathe Son of Paul, this team has had the talent to win at least one damn playoff game by now.

Well...I think Marvin's conservative style COULD WORK...if the organization actually invested in Centers and Guards.

We can't run the ball...so taking your foot off the pedal and running the ball fails.

But, our QB throws int's under pressure too...so they run the ball to avoid interceptions.

It's a vicious cycle...

Having a good interior of the offensive line would largely correct it. We haven't had an above average Center in over a decade. Actually for most of that time we've had one of the worst Centers in the NFL.

(10-05-2017, 12:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...I think Marvin's conservative style COULD WORK...if the organization actually invested in Centers and Guards.

We can't run the ball...so taking your foot off the pedal and running the ball fails.

But, our QB throws int's under pressure too...so they run the ball to avoid interceptions.

It's a vicious cycle...

Having a good interior of the offensive line would largely correct it. We haven't had an above average Center in over a decade. Actually for most of that time we've had one of the worst Centers in the NFL.

Very true.....which is what leads to our QB throwing INTs,  the C is in his lap most plays.  Also, you can't run the ball, so defenses tee off on the pass.

I personally believe that if we had added Alex Mack in 2015, the playoff drought would already be over.  You can't constantly get beat up the gut and win when it counts.

(10-05-2017, 11:37 AM)Wyche Wrote: I'll add to that Pistons, that Marv is a decent coach.  That said, his ultra-conservatism, not having us prepared for big games, and not injecting youth into the lineup when he should is what irks me.  As much as I loathe Son of Paul, this team has had the talent to win at least one damn playoff game by now.

Yup.  There have been some tough luck losses in the playoffs that I can forgive, like the first Steelers game when Carson got his knee torpedoed or the Colts game we limped into with no receivers.  However, there's been several we should have won, on paper, like the Jets, the first Texans loss, and the Chargers.  We got completely out coached and out prepped in those games.  Mike Brown has his faults as an owner/GM, but you hit the nail on the head.  They have put some pretty stacked teams on the field and underachieved.

Marvin is the NFL equivalent of John Cooper at Ohio State.  He has tons of talent on his teams but can't beat Michigan (Pittsburgh) or win a bowl(playoff) game.

(10-05-2017, 12:38 PM)Whatever Wrote: Yup.  There have been some tough luck losses in the playoffs that I can forgive, like the first Steelers game when Carson got his knee torpedoed or the Colts game we limped into with no receivers.  However, there's been several we should have won, on paper, like the Jets, the first Texans loss, and the Chargers.  We got completely out coached and out prepped in those games.  Mike Brown has his faults as an owner/GM, but you hit the nail on the head.  They have put some pretty stacked teams on the field and underachieved.

Marvin is the NFL equivalent of John Cooper at Ohio State.  He has tons of talent on his teams but can't beat Michigan (Pittsburgh) or win a bowl(playoff) game.

I agree.....or the 2nd coming of Jim Mora...

(10-05-2017, 12:36 PM)Wyche Wrote: Very true.....which is what leads to our QB throwing INTs,  the C is in his lap most plays.  Also, you can't run the ball, so defenses tee off on the pass.

I personally believe that if we had added Alex Mack in 2015, the playoff drought would already be over.  You can't constantly get beat up the gut and win when it counts.

Yes. Whatever coach we hire to replace Marvin, will eventually get a ton of optimism from the fans, but over time we'll see that any coach is limited by what they can accomplish here. I'd say odds are higher that they won't be competent at both scouting and coaching and there will be setbacks. Of course, we could catch lightning in a bottle and get someone who can win here...but odds are smaller of that happening.

IF the Bengals did have a guy like Belicheck, they likely wouldn't have given him the control he needed early on to install his system.

You can criticize Dalton, the coaches, etc...but its an organizational culture issue.

(10-05-2017, 12:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. Whatever coach we hire to replace Marvin, will eventually get a ton of optimism from the fans, but over time we'll see that any coach is limited by what they can accomplish here. I'd say odds are higher that they won't be competent at both scouting and coaching and there will be setbacks. Of course, we could catch lightning in a bottle and get someone who can win here...but odds are smaller of that happening.

IF the Bengals did have a guy like Belicheck, they likely wouldn't have given him the control he needed early on to install his system.

You can criticize Dalton, the coaches, etc...but its an organizational culture issue.

It is, but we can't do a damn thing about that aspect of it.  If anyone is do any better than Marvin, they will need complete control of their staff, and the ultimate say in personnel decisions.  For starters. 

 I like Marvin.  I am appreciative of him bringing us from the depths of the abyss.  Also, he is a good and decent man, very giving.  Having said that, he most certainly has been provided enough talent to win in the playoffs, and to not falter most of the time in primetime.  The team often comes out flat in these instances, and look lost and ill prepared.  So, what you have is, an organizational failure, couple with some questionable coaching.  Decent to good coaching, but not good enough to overcome any organizational shortcomings, and not good enough to capitalize when the franchise HAS provided you with decent enough talent to make a run.

(10-05-2017, 11:28 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think Jackson shows how a coach/QB can't overcome a bad organization.

The board looks at Jackson as superior to Marvin, but Marvin went to a team as bad as the Browns are now and turned them into a Winner. It's Year 2 for Jackson and he's 1-19 there.

I doubt Cleveland anticipate another miserable season this year, but I think they’re prepared for a losing one again & figure it’s part of the rebuilding process. I think Hugh gets at least 3 yrs guaranteed regardless of their record. I believe Cleveland is trying to model their team after ours, so they’ll be patient with Hugh.

(10-05-2017, 11:28 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think Jackson shows how a coach/QB can't overcome a bad organization.

The board looks at Jackson as superior to Marvin, but Marvin went to a team as bad as the Browns are now and turned them into a Winner. It's Year 2 for Jackson and he's 1-19 there.

Marvin got to start Year 1 with Jon Kitna and 1st overall pick Carson Palmer. Hue got Cody Kessler, Josh McCown, and RG3 as his QBs in Year 1.

Also there's absolutely no way the Bengals team Marvin inherited was as bad as the Browns team Hue inherited personnel-wise.

Marvin inherited... Willie Anderson, Corey Dillon, Takeo Spikes, Neil Rackers, Justin Smith, Levi Jones, Chad Johnson, Rudi Johnson, TJ Housh, Rich Braham, Eric Steinbach, John Thornton, Brian Simmons, Shayne Graham... and as previously mentioned got a franchise QB with his first draft pick in Carson Palmer.


Heck, Jon Kitna in 2003 was better than any QB the Browns have had since they became a franchise again in '99. Think about that.

Not to mention the Bengals only had that '05 season as "a winner" until Mike Zimmer had to be brought in to fix the "defensive guru HC" defense. That's when the Bengals became regular winners. Don't be giving Marvin too much credit there.

(10-05-2017, 01:23 AM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: I'm sure nobody really remembers me from last year but anyways a few things I got to get off my chest about this team.

1) Andy Dalton - we've watched Dalton for a good 6 years now. We should all know what he is and really nothing has changed from when we drafted him.  He is just a more polished version of the Tcu guy we drafted. I'll be the first to admit ,I've never liked his talents ,except 2015 I thought he turned into more of a competitor and became better . Now I realized that was Hues fast throwing,one read system ,with good weapons all the way around him and really,that offense could of been even better I thought. I thought that was the closest we've seen the offense look good compared to 2005 with the putting up points and come backs.

Andy Dalton I keep hearing is a pocket passer and I got to say , no he ISNT. he is at his best at predetermined throws,fast read system. If you ask him to be a pocket passer like what we had in Carson Palmer ,he's going to fail more often then not. His accuracy is inconsistent sometimes horrible, if you ask him to drop back and scan the field ,he doesn't have the pocket presence ,height , footwork , manuverabily with his feet within the pocket to be a true pocket passer. He isn't a fast runner but he can skamper for a good ten here and there . This is what he is. If you ask him to be a drop back passer ,and his accuracy is off,that's where he's became bad Andy. Add rain being a factor in the playoffs and we have 0 playoff wins .

2 - Coaching- deep down I feel we have a fighters chance of at least winning a playoff game or two with Dalton. But the coaching frustrates me to no end. I feel Marvin or Mike refuses to replace guys that needs replaced and this has been going on forever!! Center Russell Bodine is a sorry excuse for a center he has to be near the bottom of starting centers yet you continue to trot him out there year after year. Even if we don't get no push in the run game ,and he gets pushed back into Dalton. There has to be somebody better out there to replace this scrub. Can we win a Superbowl with Bodine ,I highly highly doubt it. Another scrub which a smart football mind Joe Goodberry even says is a bum, Brandon Lafell. What has he done here really to take all the snaps here at #2. You got more speed and size with Core and Malone sitting in the bench!!! Like Wtf these type of guys starting is going to be our down fall. Lafell can't even block !! But if John Ross comes back after the bye weak he might get a very small role. Like WTH has Ross earned that Malone and Core hasn't. These are two guys that could stretch the field and make us better. Also Mike Brown fox you want to win? Where's that emergency money at we could use somebody like a tight end or o lineman. They finally realized MJ wasn't getting it done,and Will Jackson got more snaps last week,wow finally. I feel we have a playoff Team if the coaching gets smart and Dalton continues to improve. With maybe a couple of additions of Ross and Eifhurt later. Just go to John Ross highlight videos ,and people are saying wow , Cincinnati is about to have a top offense.  We should !! We should be Superbowl Bound if things went right. You got to be smart ,you can't win a ring being non football smart.

Who Dey thanks for reading, Sunday is a Must Win.

Good observations. Franchise (HOF) QB's are few and far between. Brady, Rodgers, Ben and Brees are the only true elite QB's. So the Packers, Steelers and Saints have a leg up for a decade + over other every other NFL team. The guys like Flacco, Wilson and Eli who have won Super Bowls got there because of other reasons (defense).

My point simply is putting the majority on the QB while excusing the rest of the offense, defense or special teams is not accurate. Football is a team sport and unless you have the HOF QB for 10+ years, the teams need everyone to bring home the trophy.