(09-18-2017, 07:25 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: RB carousel might be one of the biggest reasons Zamp was canned.
A RB needs to build momentum and get in a rhythm. Can't do that rotating every other play.
Plays also get more predictable when you do this when you have a Jeremy Hill, who is vastly inferior talent-wise in the pass game

I still wouldn't mind seeing Gio out there with another RB every once in a while.

Either hand him the ball, throw to him out of the backfield, or line him up in the slot.

That's the only obscure package sets they should be throwing in there.

Of course this means pulling a TE off the field.  Which might just = murder in the backfield.  LOL

I guess I just would like to see Gio in the open field.  Not just these sprinting to the sideline passes.

The screens seem to fail a lot more than succeed because of poor blocking or telegraphing by the QB.

That's where he seems to get blown up and never gets any "space" to work with.

(09-18-2017, 07:35 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Yeah, how awful it is to discuss starting Mixon, who many touted as the next great running back for the Bengals after Dillon.

I heard people say the same thing about Jeremy Hill.  He should be the focal point of the offense.  No committee, more Hill.  Best RB we've had since Dillon or better than Dillon?  UH oh, his numbers aren't great...he clearly needs more carries to get a rhythm going and blah blah blah.

I'm not anti-Mixon so much as I just want to point out how we could just dig up all our RB related posts from two years ago and replace Hill with Mixon and get the same results.

Many can tout Mixon as the next Dillion the way many touted Rik Mirer as the next Joe Montana. I"m just not as gung-ho about centering this entire offense around a RB who isn't producing. Then again, we're screwed either way so I guess we can just run him into the ground ala Bell and the Steelers.

EDIT: Actually, I can almost see that happening. Fast forward a decade and Joe Mixon was supposed to be the best Bengals RB since Dillion but they decided to cut his career short by giving him over 350 carries in his rookie year behind an o-line that made sure he'd get hit in the backfield.

(09-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I wasn't the biggest fan of the Mixon selection in the draft.
I have been a Gio advocate for years to get more playing time.
I thought Hill should have been let go after he fumbled away the win against Pitt in the playoff game.

Going into week three with a 0-2 start, I am now in the opinion that it is time to start Mixon and give him the bulk of the carries making him the new workhorse. Let him have 20-30 carries, bring Gio in on 3rd and longs, then maybe use Hill if there is a short yardage situation.

A running back needs consistent touches to get a feel for the guys up front blocking for them. And though I was hesitant to want Mixon to start early on the year due to his inexperience, I'm not anymore. Let the kid play and see what he has. And using Gio more sparingly with fresher legs will maximize his runs as well.

you sound like a fair weather fan....
babe Ruth strikes out you want him fired.....his next at bat he hits a home run you want him signed to a lifetime contract....his next at bat he strikes out....you again want him fired....

there is nothing wrong w/ Hill.....I like this 3 headed monster.....if the line blocks it would work fine....I love Mixon & wanted him signed in rd #2....but that's no reason to shit on Hill....

(09-18-2017, 07:40 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I still wouldn't mind seeing Gio out there with another RB every once in a while.

Either hand him the ball, throw to him out of the backfield, or line him up in the slot.

That's the only obscure package sets they should be throwing in there.

Of course this means pulling a TE off the field.  Which might just = murder in the backfield.  LOL

I guess I just would like to see Gio in the open field.  Not just these sprinting to the sideline passes.

The screens seem to fail a lot more than succeed because of poor blocking or telegraphing by the QB.

That's where he seems to get blown up and never gets any "space" to work with.

Usually, the screens are poorly executed by the linemen.  They tend to fire out without touching the guy across from them, leaving a clear path to the QB and making it nearly impossible for him to make a good throw.  We did run two decent screens against the Ravens, though, so maybe they are figuring it out a little.

Lazor will end the trio. Who he chooses, we will see. I would also like Mixon to simply get experience.

(09-18-2017, 08:40 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Lazor will end the trio. Who he chooses, we will see. I would also like Mixon to simply get experience.

I would like to see him not dodging tacklers in the backfield, simply to see what he can actually do with a hole to run to.

(09-18-2017, 07:46 PM)Steve Wrote: you sound like a fair weather fan....
babe Ruth strikes out you want him fired.....his next at bat he hits a home run you want him signed to a lifetime contract....his next at bat he strikes out....you again want him fired....

there is nothing wrong w/ Hill.....I like this 3 headed monster.....if the line blocks it would work fine....I love Mixon & wanted him signed in rd #2....but that's no reason to shit on Hill....

What's wrong is they're not getting into a "rhythm" and B. Lazor mentioned this in his 1st press conference. He's going to get Andy and RB(s) in a rhythm, and that definitely means don't randomly choose which RB plays this series out of a hat.

It's one thing to be fresh, it's another to be gaining experience of what the other team is doing and exploiting their weaknesses. The less of the field you see, the more Xs and Os it becomes. No player gets significantly better sitting on the sidelines.

The only rhythm Dalton has been in is under duress, I doubt Lazor can fix that this year. A shame we didn't focus on that in the draft and instead picked up pieces like Ross and Mixon (who are good, but they should have known how horrible this line is). They bet and banked on the wrong thing.

Please don't compare J. Hill to Babe Ruth.

(09-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I wasn't the biggest fan of the Mixon selection in the draft.
I have been a Gio advocate for years to get more playing time.
I thought Hill should have been let go after he fumbled away the win against Pitt in the playoff game.

Going into week three with a 0-2 start, I am now in the opinion that it is time to start Mixon and give him the bulk of the carries making him the new workhorse. Let him have 20-30 carries, bring Gio in on 3rd and longs, then maybe use Hill if there is a short yardage situation.

A running back needs consistent touches to get a feel for the guys up front blocking for them. And though I was hesitant to want Mixon to start early on the year due to his inexperience, I'm not anymore. Let the kid play and see what he has. And using Gio more sparingly with fresher legs will maximize his runs as well.

Hell no bro. Mixon has to earn his spot. You dont just start Mixon over Gio because of size. He has to produce like Gio. No wonder the Bengals are perennial losers. They won't play the real talent because of whatever excuses, in this case Gio not being able to handle the load. BS. I'm still confused how Hill got the starting job over Gio when he's wincing in pain after every carry since he's been here. Feed Gio Feed AJ Feed Ross= win!

That Kareem Hunt kid seemed to get in a rhythm pretty quick

(09-18-2017, 08:42 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: What's wrong is they're not getting into a "rhythm" and B. Lazor mentioned this in his 1st press conference. He's going to get Andy and RB(s) in a rhythm, and that definitely means don't randomly choose which RB plays this series out of a hat.

It's one thing to be fresh, it's another to be gaining experience of what the other team is doing and exploiting their weaknesses. The less of the field you see, the more Xs and Os it becomes. No player gets significantly better sitting on the sidelines.

The only rhythm Dalton has been in is under duress, I doubt Lazor can fix that this year. A shame we didn't focus on that in the draft and instead picked up pieces like Ross and Mixon (who are good, but they should have known how horrible this line is). They bet and banked on the wrong thing.

Please don't compare J. Hill to Babe Ruth.

I wasn't comparing anyone to Babe Ruth....just using him as an example to show how fans can flip so easily....
i've been wanting a new OC for a long time....but love Mixon in rd #2...huge steal....

Unfortunately Mixon has not been doing that well, I guess we can blame the Offensive line. Hill has looked better....

(09-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I wasn't the biggest fan of the Mixon selection in the draft.
I have been a Gio advocate for years to get more playing time.
I thought Hill should have been let go after he fumbled away the win against Pitt in the playoff game.

Going into week three with a 0-2 start, I am now in the opinion that it is time to start Mixon and give him the bulk of the carries making him the new workhorse. Let him have 20-30 carries, bring Gio in on 3rd and longs, then maybe use Hill if there is a short yardage situation.

A running back needs consistent touches to get a feel for the guys up front blocking for them. And though I was hesitant to want Mixon to start early on the year due to his inexperience, I'm not anymore. Let the kid play and see what he has. And using Gio more sparingly with fresher legs will maximize his runs as well.

Heard Lapham talking about that yesterday with Mixon's talent.  He said the problem is he'll get beat down (physically but also mentally) because the line is so bad.  He was talking about him having to make his first move well behind the line of scrimmage.  He really called out the OL (not a shocker), essentially saying there is no excuse for the YPC average and they needed to put on their big boy pants and man up.  It's not that difficult.

(09-18-2017, 07:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I heard people say the same thing about Jeremy Hill.  He should be the focal point of the offense.  No committee, more Hill.  Best RB we've had since Dillon or better than Dillon?  UH oh, his numbers aren't great...he clearly needs more carries to get a rhythm going and blah blah blah.

I'm not anti-Mixon so much as I just want to point out how we could just dig up all our RB related posts from two years ago and replace Hill with Mixon and get the same results.

Many can tout Mixon as the next Dillion the way many touted Rik Mirer as the next Joe Montana.  I"m just not as gung-ho about centering this entire offense around a RB who isn't producing.  Then again, we're screwed either way so I guess we can just run him into the ground ala Bell and the Steelers.

EDIT:  Actually, I can almost see that happening.  Fast forward a decade and Joe Mixon was supposed to be the best Bengals RB since Dillion but they decided to cut his career short by giving him over 350 carries in his rookie year behind an o-line that made sure he'd get hit in the backfield.

Correct.  But Jeremy Hill at some point decided he wanted to be LeVeon Bell and wait behind the LOS for something to open up.  2 problems with that:  1) Jeremy Hill is not LeVeon Bell, 2) the Bengal line is not the Steeler line.  

I liked hill as a straight up power back running behind a full back.  Somewhere he veered off course to try to become a finese back.  I'm no longer buying.  Next up...

Joe Mixon: 2.6 YPC on 52 carries
Jeremy Hill: 3.3 YPC on 26 carries
Gio Bernard: 4.9 YPC on 18 carries

People will look at Gio and sure he's doing better (on a small workload), but they've all had some long gains, and if you take their long away, here's what they're averaging:

Mixon: 2.27 YPC
Hill: 2.88 YPC
Bernard: 3.76 YPC

Pathetic...

Gio is a better option mearly because of his receiving yards, he's actually averaging 16.8 yards, with only 8 receptions on 12 targets. If they can get Gio open in some space he produces as much as A.J., as A.J. is averaging 17.1...

Avoid the voided O-Line, find the space, like a true WCO/Vertical Offense.

(09-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I wasn't the biggest fan of the Mixon selection in the draft.
I have been a Gio advocate for years to get more playing time.
I thought Hill should have been let go after he fumbled away the win against Pitt in the playoff game.

Going into week three with a 0-2 start, I am now in the opinion that it is time to start Mixon and give him the bulk of the carries making him the new workhorse. Let him have 20-30 carries, bring Gio in on 3rd and longs, then maybe use Hill if there is a short yardage situation.

A running back needs consistent touches to get a feel for the guys up front blocking for them. And though I was hesitant to want Mixon to start early on the year due to his inexperience, I'm not anymore. Let the kid play and see what he has. And using Gio more sparingly with fresher legs will maximize his runs as well.

I'm against it......I like what new OC Lazor is doing.  He is out of Joe Gibbs Championship Redskins coaching and I like that as Forrest Gregg of Lombardi and Zimmer of Bill Parcells.  ....Mixon IS getting his carries, but Bernard is proving to be a huge weapon also.  Hill can still pound the rock.  ....I see most NFL teams in 2017 are doing RB by committee, even those with super star running backs are sending in other RBs.  ......I liked the Lazor offense against Green Bay and Cleveland.  I can see what he is trying to do.  He is speeding it up. They are lining up faster.  Running the plays quicker and crisper. What our young O Linemen like Big Og have is youthful speed and he is using that on sweeps and screens as opposed to lining them up with a WR in those stupid Hue and Zampese formations. 

Yes, you will see Mixon, but you will see Bernard and Hill also.  Lazor is not just moving these guys in and out like Zampese, Lazor seems to be picking the right RB for the right play.  So far I like what Lazor is doing and when Bernard scores on touchdown passes, I do not cry because it wasn't Mixon.  So far, I like this Joe Gibbs Lazor attack.  The huge thing is he is using the faster O Line in ways to use that speed, calling plays where WR's and RBs are wide open for passes, and rebuilding confidence in Andy Dalton with short quick air strikes which is helping Dalton get back to hitting the deep routes again. 

For now, I don't care which RB Lazor has in the game as long as we score points and win.  Mixon has looked good, but so has Bernard and Hill is still pounding for some 9 yard carries.  Every team in NFL is using multiple RB's in 2017.  Lazor seems to be getting the right ones in for the right play.  You can not just say Mixon, Bernard on 3rd down and Hill short yardage because NFL defenses will be all over that vanilla approach.  Lazor is getting the right back in for the right play of his and so far it's working.  I like the team is in more of a Sam Whyche hurry up mode as these plays come quicker, crisper, faster than under Hue or Zampese. 

(10-07-2017, 12:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Joe Mixon: 2.6 YPC on 52 carries
Jeremy Hill: 3.3 YPC on 26 carries
Gio Bernard: 4.9 YPC on 18 carries

People will look at Gio and sure he's doing better (on a small workload), but they've all had some long gains, and if you take their long away, here's what they're averaging:

Mixon: 2.27 YPC
Hill: 2.88 YPC
Bernard: 3.76 YPC

Pathetic...

Why would we take away their long  gains? 

(10-07-2017, 01:02 PM)CINwillWIN Wrote: Gio is a better option mearly because of his receiving yards, he's actually averaging 16.8 yards, with only 8 receptions on 12 targets. If they can get Gio open in some space he produces as much as A.J., as A.J. is averaging 17.1...

Avoid the voided O-Line, find the space, like a true WCO/Vertical Offense.

Gio has averaged over 40 catches a season with a decent YPC including the few years he was injured. He moves the ball really well between the 20s. The only issue is when you give him alot of touches he starts to get nicked up and misses games. I'm a huge fan of Gio but he is a RB by committee kinda of back.

(10-07-2017, 02:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why would we take away their long  gains? 

Its the number of carries. When there's a large difference in the amount of carries youre supposed to take away the longest and shortest runs.

Start Mixion, spell him with Bernard, And use Hill in short yardage and goal line situations.