(10-07-2017, 01:02 PM)CINwillWIN Wrote: Gio is a better option mearly because of his receiving yards, he's actually averaging 16.8 yards, with only 8 receptions on 12 targets. If they can get Gio open in some space he produces as much as A.J., as A.J. is averaging 17.1...

Avoid the voided O-Line, find the space, like a true WCO/Vertical Offense.

Exactly!  Get him in some vertical situations WITH the screens as well.

Don't abandon one for the other...  but at least introduce it into the offense.

There is no reason that Gio couldn't take on a Baby Hawk style role and be effective.

The guy can get nicked up doing a simple hand-off. 

You just can't sit him too much because of injury fears.

Make him a fractional focus of a defense, even if he's just a decoy.

Time and time again you'll hear the analysts say he's the kind of player who can explode.

Hopefully this team realizes that Gio can garner more attention from the opposing D than some of those other WRs not named Green.

Running and vertical threat.

I just wish the O-line was capable enough to let Gio be an outlet receiver in a comeback route or beyond the middle of the LOS.

That's where I think he could create some damage honestly.

Gio has averaged 4.1 ypc or less in 3 of his 4 full seasons.

Jeremy has averaged less than 4 ypc in 2 of his 3 full seasons. 

Mixon is currently struggling to reach 3 ypc in his 1st season.

The one common denominator seems to be the ivory ticklin' O-line savant. 

(10-07-2017, 02:15 PM)Synric Wrote: Its the number of carries. When there's a large difference in the amount of carries youre supposed to take away the longest and shortest runs.

I'll assume you are joking

(10-07-2017, 04:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll assume you are joking

No.. it's basic math.. when comparing two averages that over all numbers are far apart you drop the lowest and highest numbers...

Also we are talking the AVERAGE of every run. So ONE run wouldn't dramatically change the overall AVERAGE of all runs. Which shake shows in this post.

(10-07-2017, 12:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Joe Mixon: 2.6 YPC on 52 carries
Jeremy Hill: 3.3 YPC on 26 carries
Gio Bernard: 4.9 YPC on 18 carries

People will look at Gio and sure he's doing better (on a small workload), but they've all had some long gains, and if you take their long away, here's what they're averaging:

Mixon: 2.27 YPC
Hill: 2.88 YPC
Bernard: 3.76 YPC

Pathetic...

Gio's AVERAGE is over a yard PER AVERAGE difference.

(10-07-2017, 05:12 PM)Synric Wrote: No.. it's basic math.. when comparing two averages that over all numbers are far apart you drop the lowest and highest numbers...

Also we are talking the AVERAGE of every run. So ONE run wouldn't dramatically change the overall AVERAGE of all runs. Which shake shows in this post.



Gio's AVERAGE is over a yard PER AVERAGE difference.

I have no words.

(10-07-2017, 05:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have no words.

And here I thought I sucked in math class lol. 

Again basic math says when finding the average of two variables that overall numbers are far apart you drop that largest and smallest numbers. Seriously this stuff is elementary school...

PS when it's a string of numbers( and I am probably wrong about this amount like I said I sucked at math) if the variable is over 6 numbers youre finding the MEANS not the AVERAGE.

This thread was started 3 weeks.

And since then Gio has shown to be the best back. Best back being said lightly though with this craphole of a run blocking line.

But Mixon has shown some flashes, and can catch out of the backfield. He just isnt consistent enough. At the same time, Gio on 3rd downs is by far the most valuable back they have. So he cant be used all the time.

Hill just seems like the odd man out imo.

(10-07-2017, 05:55 PM)Synric Wrote: And here I thought I sucked in math class lol. 

Again basic math says when finding the average of two variables that overall numbers are far apart you drop that largest and smallest numbers. Seriously this stuff is elementary school...

You are talking about a trimmed mean.

(10-07-2017, 06:08 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This thread was started 3 weeks.

And since then Gio has shown to be the best back. Best back being said lightly though with this craphole of a run blocking line.

But Mixon has shown some flashes, and can catch out of the backfield. He just isnt consistent enough. At the same time, Gio on 3rd downs is by far the most valuable back they have. So he cant be used all the time.

Hill just seems like the odd man out imo.

Agreed,

Gio should be the starter and get 50-60% of the work load. I don't buy to much into the narrative that Gio can't do this and can't do that ! I think all of that gets blown way out of proportion.

Mixon should be the spell back getting 40% or so of the work load. Gio and Mixon are much more dynamic playmakers and should be on the field. If this switches around before it's over so be it.

Hill should be 3rd string and used sparingly. 

I can't stand the switching backs every other play mode we get in !

(10-07-2017, 06:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You are talking about a trimmed mean.

Yes. This is correct when averaging a large set of numbers you drop the highest and lowest numbers to get a more accurate average.

Now you tell me which is more accurate a Gio's 4.9 YPC with the 1 large run of 18 attempts or dropping that 1 out of 18 runs which drops his YPC average significantly to accurate 3.7 average... I'm betting overall it's closer to the 3.7.

Lol this is why I say stats suck in football Averages Percentages Ratings all of them can be manipulated. Tape doesn't lie.

(09-18-2017, 03:53 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He can't get 20-30 carries if he's not productive enough to get first downs. The Bengals RBs had 20 carries Week 2. Those 20 RB carries went for 63 yards, or 3.15 YPC.

Mixon has had 17 carries this season so far...
-7 have gone for 4 or more yards (long of 8)
-2 have gone for 3 yards
-2 have gone for 2 yards
-6 have gone for 1 or less yards

That's 7 successful carries (4+ yards) vs 10 unsuccessful carries (3- yards). He's sitting on a 2.6 YPC right now and he's not really doing well in the passing game either with 4 catches for 20 yards (5.0 AVG).

Keep in mind that Giovani Bernard has 4.2 YPC and 18.3 AVG right now.

- - - - - - - - - -

That said, I do agree with you that there needs to be a lot more focus of touches on one RB. I think RB by committee rarely ever works. The part where we disagree though is who should get the increase in touches.  I am not so sure that it's Mixon. He's honestly not shown much yet. He has 0 plays of 10+ yards in 21 touches.

yeah.. I see some upside in Mixon...and Gio..and Hill.  Untill the line BLOCKS  rather well.. I don't KNOW what's there. I HAVE some hopes our O-Line guys at least become about what we expected on draft Day.
I Saw Bill Walsh build a dynasty with the Niners.   They did not need a lot of high picks.   They'd pick a "sleeper" and coach him up to Starter...Pro Bowl.  Walsh and the Niners......could CREATE stars out of guys they drafted rather low.
Jesse Sapoulo was ..I think a rd 10 pick. He became a Top C, starter on Super Bowl Winners, Pro Bowl.

(10-07-2017, 03:30 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Gio has averaged 4.1 ypc or less in 3 of his 4 full seasons.

Jeremy has averaged less than 4 ypc in 2 of his 3 full seasons. 

Mixon is currently struggling to reach 3 ypc in his 1st season.

The one common denominator seems to be the ivory ticklin' O-line savant. 

Not saying that the OL/Piano Man isn't the problem, but that's some hinky criteria there.

Hill is less than 4, Mixon is less than 3, and Gio is 4.1 or less. One of those criteria isn't like the others. Lol

(10-07-2017, 06:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You are talking about a trimmed mean.

Andy and Barney always said Floyd gave a mean trim, but he took too much off their sideburns.  Right now I would say none of the Bengals RBs are tearing up the NFL in stats.  Some very basic math is under Zampese 2 games. no touchdowns.  Under Lazor 2 games we are getting touchdowns.  So far Lazor seems to be dealing up the right plays with the right players. He seems to know what he is doing. One huge change is Lazor sees the Bengals went to a younger and faster offensive line, so he has the tackles and guards pulling out more on sweeps, power sweeps, traps, screens. Instead of lining moon pies out with WR's, they are now pulling out from a normal O Line formation.  Plays are lining up and running faster and crisper. I even saw Hill gain yards on a sweep which he never does. Mixon looks like the guy that can run any play, but Bernard is catching and getting TD's and Hill can still pound it.  I see more method than madness to what Lazor is doing.  That he coached with Joe Gibbs, Mike Holmgren, Jim Mora, Chip Kelly is a good thing like Zimmer past of Bill Parcells.  It could be the key number is we got rid of 1 bad OC and got 1 good OC who actually helps and makes game changes and is dialing up good plays. 

Gio has been our best back. Rotate him and Mixon and forget Hill even exists.

(10-07-2017, 10:15 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Gio has been our best back. Rotate him and Mixon and forget Hill even exists.

Folks have fallen in love with Mixon and I really don't get it. He was not a prolific College RB.

Will he become the best RB ever? Maybe. But the hype is just silly. 

(10-07-2017, 10:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks have fallen in love with Mixon and I really don't get it. He was not a prolific College RB.

Will he become the best RB ever? Maybe. But the hype is just silly. 

You can't see the difference in Mixon's play making ability vs. Hill's ?

(10-07-2017, 02:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why would we take away their long  gains? 

What Syrinc said. Gio only has 18 carries (smallest sample of the bunch), therefore his longest gain has a bigger impact on his average than Hill (25 carries) or Mixon (52 carries). 

(10-07-2017, 10:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks have fallen in love with Mixon and I really don't get it. He was not a prolific College RB.

Will he become the best RB ever? Maybe. But the hype is just silly. 

Not I. I'm for whatever improves our run game from 28th in YPC. If that's starting Gio, so be it...but I'd be willing to bet that if Gio gets 15 carries per game, that 4.9 average is going to plummet like a rock dropped from the Empire State building.

(10-08-2017, 12:29 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What Syrinc said. Gio only has 18 carries (smallest sample of the bunch), therefore his longest gain has a bigger impact on his average than Hill (25 carries) or Mixon (52 carries). 


Not I. I'm for whatever improves our run game from 28th in YPC. If that's starting Gio, so be it...but I'd be willing to bet that if Gio gets 15 carries per game, that 4.9 average is going to plummet like a rock dropped from the Empire State building.

With this O-line I'll go one step farther and guarantee it !

But both Gio and Mixon's home run abilities on those few plays where they actually get a block or a defender falls down, or is out of place or whatever is leaps and bounds above Hill's !

Hill's 3 yards in a cloud of dust downhill running helps this current team very, very little ! We need the play makers in there when those odd chances arrive.

(10-07-2017, 06:08 PM)Millhouse Wrote: This thread was started 3 weeks.

And since then Gio has shown to be the best back. Best back being said lightly though with this craphole of a run blocking line.

But Mixon has shown some flashes, and can catch out of the backfield. He just isnt consistent enough. At the same time, Gio on 3rd downs is by far the most valuable back they have. So he cant be used all the time.

Hill just seems like the odd man out imo.

There it is.  Gio is the best back on the roster.  There's really no reason to "play it scared" and not give him the carries.  The dude is the best back.  Hill impressed me with his vault for a crucial 2 yards.  Mixon has flashed, but at the end of the day the best player should get the snaps. Gio has looked the best.

(10-08-2017, 12:29 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1) What Syrinc said. Gio only has 18 carries (smallest sample of the bunch), therefore his longest gain has a bigger impact on his average than Hill (25 carries) or Mixon (52 carries). 


2) Not I. I'm for whatever improves our run game from 28th in YPC. If that's starting Gio, so be it...but I'd be willing to bet that if Gio gets 15 carries per game, that 4.9 average is going to plummet like a rock dropped from the Empire State building.

1)....or it shows he has a propensity to break off a long run more often. Actually pointing to how few runs he has makes less sense as a reason to remove one.

2) The guy has a 4.2 career YPC and had 4.7 I'm the only season he played 16 games, 4.9 is not so hard to imagine and it to "plummet like a rock dropped from the Empire State building" is harder to imagine. 


Folks always hate on the Bengals for not playing the "more talented" rookie. It seems now they may be playing the rookie over the more talented vet.