We have perfect timing for a trade with our BYE coming up.

(10-09-2017, 12:45 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Lafells value might be a 7th round pick, brown is probably a second. I'm no genius but that isn't even close.

Boyd was a second round pick last year and caught 54 balls, lafell caught 64.  But Boyd caught 66% of his targets, lafell caught just under 60%.

So younger with more potential, similar results, cheaper WR rookie contract.

I didn't mean to imply LaFell for Brown straight up. I just meant LaFell instead of Boyd.
Add next year's 2nd rounder onto LaFell for Brown. I think that'd be fair.

And to get to your comparison of Boyd and LaFell last year, you conveniently left out a couple critical details that separate them...
LaFell - 64 rec, 862 yards, 6 TD
Boyd - 54 rec, 603 yards, 1 TD

You have to factor in the actual yardage and TD totals, you can't just say they are very close just because of 10 receptions.
LaFell had 42% more yards than Boyd, and he had 600% of the TDs.

And so far in 2017, LaFell has had more than double the yardage than Boyd, so it's not like Boyd is trending in the right direction.

If I'm in win-now mode, I'm going LaFell over Boyd.

(10-09-2017, 12:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I didn't mean to imply LaFell for Brown straight up. I just meant LaFell instead of Boyd.
Add next year's 2nd rounder onto LaFell for Brown. I think that'd be fair.

And to get to your comparison of Boyd and LaFell last year, you conveniently left out a couple critical details that separate them...
LaFell - 64 rec, 862 yards, 6 TD
Boyd - 54 rec, 603 yards, 1 TD

You have to factor in the actual yardage and TD totals, you can't just say they are very close just because of 10 receptions.
LaFell had 42% more yards than Boyd, and he had 600% of the TDs.

And so far in 2017, LaFell has had more than double the yardage than Boyd, so it's not like Boyd is trending in the right direction.

If I'm in win-now mode, I'm going LaFell over Boyd.

Teams in win now mode don't trade up for a franchise QB.

And you can't compare lafells ypc and Boyd's ypc. Slot guys typically have lower YPC than those that play on the outside.

Two thirds in 2018 for him. Hard no at giving up Dennard or Jackson.

(10-09-2017, 01:00 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Teams in win now mode don't trade up for a franchise QB.

And you can't compare lafells ypc and Boyd's ypc. Slot guys typically have lower YPC than those that play on the outside.

So what exactly are we supposed to compare then?

LaFell has always been better in the slot than the outside anyway and still put up solid numbers last year while playing multiple spots. He also went against #1 CBs when AJ went down and he still outproduced Boyd. The fact he's shown he even can play on the outside over Boyd shows he has more value than Boyd right now.

Also regarding win-now mode, the Texans likely didn't think Watson would have been playing as well right out of the gate as he had. They are also just one game out of the division lead and a solid slot receiver could help them win the division this year and possibly do more. And LaFell has at least proven to be competent on the outside also if Hopkins went down.

Boyd hasn't done anything to prove he's worth more than LaFell right now. But if the Texans would want Boyd over LaFell, then fine take him. I'm fine with either being moved to get Brown, I just think LaFell is better and therefore have a better chance of making such a deal happen.

(10-09-2017, 01:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So what exactly are we supposed to compare then?

LaFell has always been better in the slot than the outside anyway and still put up solid numbers last year while playing multiple spots. He also went against #1 CBs when AJ went down and he still outproduced Boyd. The fact he's shown he even can play on the outside over Boyd shows he has more value than Boyd right now.

Also regarding win-now mode, the Texans likely didn't think Watson would have been playing as well right out of the gate as he had. They are also just one game out of the division lead and a solid slot receiver could help them win the division this year and possibly do more. And LaFell has at least proven to be competent on the outside also if Hopkins went down.

Boyd hasn't done anything to prove he's worth more than LaFell right now. But if the Texans would want Boyd over LaFell, then fine take him. I'm fine with either being moved to get Brown, I just think LaFell is better and therefore have a better chance of making such a deal happen.

With Boyd's legal case would you really trade lafell away and roll with boyd?

(10-09-2017, 01:17 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: With Boyd's legal case would you really trade lafell away and roll with boyd?

If it meant getting Duane Brown vs not, yes.

(10-09-2017, 01:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If it meant getting Duane Brown vs not, yes.

would have to have something worked out with brown... Or we'd trade for him and he wouldn't play for us either  He wants paid big... I believe is the reason for the holdout

(10-09-2017, 01:22 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: would have to have something worked out with brown... Or we'd trade for him and he wouldn't play for us either  He wants paid big... I believe is the reason for the holdout

Yes I've already outlined that in a previous post. He would need a new contract extension that would likely have to be $11+ mill a year, but IMO it's worth it.
At this point, I want to do whatever it takes to win in the next couple years. I'm ready to go all in.

Would Duane Brown upgrade the OL enough the rest of this year and potentially boost next year such that the Bengals had a realistic shot to advance in the playoffs? I think so.

Vigil and 3rd?. The Chiefs Fisher struggled for 3 years so there's hope for Obueghi maybe he does ok at guard? Fisher our 2nd round pick seems like a lost cause.

I'm not on board with trading any young starters on D for a 32 year old disgruntled OT. You'd offer some lower picks and that is it.

And no the Texans don't want any of our aging rolemplayers as a throw in. It's not Madden

You guys are offerring a lot in your scenarios for a disgruntled 32 year old OT. Whitworth is 35.

32 is really old for most tackles. Whitworth was an anamoly.

(10-09-2017, 04:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You guys are offerring a lot in your scenarios for a disgruntled 32 year old OT. Whitworth is 35.

32 is really old for most tackles. Whitworth was an anamoly.

What would you give up for Joe Thomas? The best LT of this generation.

Trade Kirkpatrick or hill or no. He would be new, he's disgruntled while getting paid 9 million, and he wants a big new deal before playing. Doesnt sound like something mike brown would even consider anyways

(10-09-2017, 12:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We have perfect timing for a trade with our BYE coming up.

Man, only if this front office were competent enough!

(10-09-2017, 04:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You guys are offerring a lot in your scenarios for a disgruntled 32 year old OT.  Whitworth is 35.

32 is really old for most tackles. Whitworth was an anamoly.

Pretty much my thoughts on the issue.  I don't see anyone in the Bengals front office being enchanted with an aging LT that is pulling a stickup move on his current team for more money.

Sorry folks, just don't see any scenario that brings Duane Brown to the Bengals.

(10-09-2017, 04:20 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: What would you give up for Joe Thomas?  The best LT of this generation.

Trades are generally for pennies on the dollar in the NFL unless it's for a QB.

For Joe Thomas who's 32 and has probably 2-3 good seasons left...I'd say a 2nd and 4th Round pick would be fair.

(10-09-2017, 08:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Pretty much my thoughts on the issue.  I don't see anyone in the Bengals front office being enchanted with an aging LT that is pulling a stickup move on his current team for more money.

Sorry folks, just don't see any scenario that brings Duane Brown to the Bengals.

Yessir. Is Brown really that great on the field to give up a kings ransom too? He's no doubt a huge upgrade to what we have.

PFF had him ranked 27/61 for pass blocking efficiency in 2016. He was Top 15 in the previous 4 seasons before that...so he declined.

Run blocking he ranked 7th.

Overall they had him ranked 16th of 81 Tackles.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-duane-brown-expected-to-hold-out-of-training-camp

The way I see it if there is 1 position on this team that can actually make an impact right away and help get this team over the hump it's Tackle. Can't get caught up in the whole "he's 32 should have just kept Whit" argument. We would take Whit back in a heartbeat. I don't even care like some do on here about how much Brown would demand, not coming out of my pocket. We're not saving money to keep good players anyway. We screwed up with Whit, make up for that mistake here. I say go get him.

(10-09-2017, 09:03 PM)TKUHL Wrote: The way I see it if there is 1 position on this team that can actually make an impact right away and help get this team over the hump it's Tackle. Can't get caught up in the whole "he's 32 should have just kept Whit" argument. We would take Whit back in a heartbeat. I don't even care like some do on here about how much Brown would demand, not coming out of my pocket. We're not saving money to keep good players anyway. We screwed up with Whit, make up for that mistake here. I say go get him.

The Whitworth argument is that most tackles decline when they hit around 32. Whitworth didn't. He's the exception.

We may end up paying a premium for a guy that has declined a lot.

As I posted above...his pass protection got worse last year. He gave up something like 26 pressures.