I put him somewhere between 15-16.

I take these guys over him:
-Brady
-Alex Smith (11 TD 0 Int this year)
-Rodgers
-Brees
-Carr
-Cousins
-Newton
-Wentz
-Goff
-Stafford
-Dak Prescott
-Winston
-Russell Wilson
-Matt Ryan
-Roethlisberger (had 1 bad game but you'd still take him over Dalton.)

I think he falls into this list somewhere depending on preference. I think I'd take Watson over him...but not Manning and maybe Rivers.

-Eli Manning
-Rivers
-Watson

Here's the full list:
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

(10-09-2017, 04:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I put him somewhere between 15-16.

I take these guys over him:
-Brady
-Alex Smith (11 TD 0 Int this year)
-Rodgers
-Brees
-Carr
-Cousins
-Newton
-Wentz
-Goff
-Stafford
-Dak Prescott
-Winston
-Russell Wilson
-Matt Ryan
-Roethlisberger (had 1 bad game but you'd still take him over Dalton.)

I think he falls into this list somewhere depending on preference. I think I'd take Watson over him...but not Manning and maybe Rivers.

-Eli Manning
-Rivers
-Watson

Here's the full list:
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

Are the contracts all the same or is that a variable you take into consideration?

I'm not sure Winston, Carr, Goff, cousins are better at this point.

(10-09-2017, 05:05 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Are the contracts all the same or is that a variable you take into consideration?

I'm not sure Winston, Carr, Goff, cousins are better at this point.

I think that Carr, Goff, and Cousins are. Goff hasn't done it for long obviously. But as #1 picks in the draft, Goff and Winston have better physical attributes.

But go ahead and do your list.

I don't factor contracts into my evaluation...but you can do yours however you see fit.

(10-09-2017, 05:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think that Carr, Goff, and Cousins are. Goff hasn't done it for long obviously. But as #1 picks in the draft, Goff and Winston have better physical attributes.

But go ahead and do your list.

I don't factor contracts into my evaluation...but you can do yours however you see fit.

I take these guys over him:
-Brady
-Alex Smith (This year)
-Rodgers
-Brees
-Rivers
-Russel Wilson
-matt Ryan


I'd say he could fall into this group
-Carr
-Cousins
-Newton
-Wentz
-Goff
-Stafford
-Dak Prescott
-Winston
-Roethlisberger
-Eli Manning
-Mariota
-Bradford

I would take him or put him in same rank as Went, Carr, Cousins, Smith, Newton, Stafford, and Goff. To me that's just plain disrespectful to say those guys are better than him. Andy has proven to be a good QB over his first 5 years and deserves a pass on his first two games of this season which are really his only two bad games in the last 21.

(10-09-2017, 04:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I put him somewhere between 15-16.

I take these guys over him:
-Brady
-Alex Smith (11 TD 0 Int this year)
-Rodgers
-Brees
-Carr
-Cousins
-Newton
-Wentz
-Goff
-Stafford
-Dak Prescott
-Winston
-Russell Wilson
-Matt Ryan
-Roethlisberger (had 1 bad game but you'd still take him over Dalton.)

I think he falls into this list somewhere depending on preference. I think I'd take Watson over him...but not Manning and maybe Rivers.

-Eli Manning
-Rivers
-Watson

Here's the full list:
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING

Of the guys you listed, I'm taking Dalton over...

Alex Smith - a hot start doesn't make him any better, just as a cold start for Ben doesn't make him worse than Andy
Cam Newton - I have him in the same tier as Andy, but I always prefer pocket passers over runners
Stafford - Flip a coin. They're similar to me, but Dalton has a better career passer rating by almost 2 points.
Wentz - He's off to a good start this year. Not sold enough to pick him over a guy with Dalton's resume, yet.
Dak Preskott - Same thing as Wentz, and Dak predictably has come back to earth a bit since last year. We'll see how he handles not having Zeke.
Winston - I guess this is another guy we're supposed to believe is better than Andy, even though Andy's career rating is 3 full points higher.
Jared Goff - He's had what...3 good games? Damn.

Russell Wilson - Here's Dalton and Wilson's stats since the start of last year:

Wilson
Passing: 464-724-5441-29-14 (92.1 rating)
Rushing: 102-413-2
Sacks: 54

Dalton
Passing: 468-722-5426-25-14 (90.9 rating)
Rushing: 60-220-4
Sacks: 56

It's uncanny how similar all of these stats are, yet Dalton has been roasted for his play, while Wilson gets showered with pity for how bad his line is. I give Dalton the edge for putting up these numbers with a coordinator that's so bad the players had a revolt to get him fired. Not to mention Pete Carroll >>> Marvin.

So I guess I'd put Dalton between 10th and 14th. As I said, you could flip a coin between Dalton and guys like Wilson, Newton and Stafford. It's funny though. I read off those names and my initial reaction is that Dalton doesn't belong with them. The media and fans have dogged Dalton for so long that you start to doubt the guy based on the narratives. But the numbers and wins just tell a completely different story. 

That's why I've always preferred objective facts over subjective opinions.

he's around 15 to 20

(10-09-2017, 05:12 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I take these guys over him:
-Brady
-Alex Smith (This year)
-Rodgers
-Brees
-Rivers
-Russel Wilson
-matt Ryan


I'd say he could fall into this group
-Carr
-Cousins
-Newton
-Wentz
-Goff
-Stafford
-Dak Prescott
-Winston
-Roethlisberger
-Eli Manning
-Mariota
-Bradford

Alex Smith is playing lights out this year, but over all, I wouldn’t take him over Andy. When I think of teams that fall off after a hot start, KC tops the list. Seems they regularly start hot then falter. Could be my imagination though.

(10-09-2017, 05:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Of the guys you listed, I'm taking Dalton over...

Alex Smith - a hot start doesn't make him any better, just as a cold start for Ben doesn't make him worse than Andy
Cam Newton - I have him in the same tier as Andy, but I always prefer pocket passers over runners
Stafford - Flip a coin. They're similar to me, but Dalton has a better career passer rating by almost 2 points.
Wentz - He's off to a good start this year. Not sold enough to pick him over a guy with Dalton's resume, yet.
Dak Preskott - Same thing as Wentz, and Dak predictably has come back to earth a bit since last year. We'll see how he handles not having Zeke.
Winston - I guess this is another guy we're supposed to believe is better than Andy, even though Andy's career rating is 3 full points higher.
Jared Goff - He's had what...3 good games? Damn.

Russell Wilson - Here's Dalton and Wilson's stats since the start of last year:

Wilson
Passing: 464-724-5441-29-14 (92.1 rating)
Rushing: 102-413-2
Sacks: 54

Dalton
Passing: 468-722-5426-25-14 (90.9 rating)
Rushing: 60-220-4
Sacks: 56

It's uncanny how similar all of these stats are, yet Dalton has been roasted for his play, while Wilson gets showered with pity for how bad his line is. I give Dalton the edge for putting up these numbers with a coordinator that's so bad the players had a revolt to get him fired. Not to mention Pete Carroll >>> Marvin.

So I guess I'd put Dalton between 10th and 14th. As I said, you could flip a coin between Dalton and guys like Wilson, Newton and Stafford. It's funny though. I read off those names and my initial reaction is that Dalton doesn't belong with them. The media and fans have dogged Dalton for so long that you start to doubt the guy based on the narratives. But the numbers and wins just tell a completely different story. 

That's why I've always preferred objective facts over subjective opinions.

Hell throw Matt Ryan in as well dude is just as good as Andy but everyone acts like he is superior to him. Andy is flat out underrated and it is because the media can't stomach that they didn't see his success coming when he was drafted.

I think it would depend on the time frame.

This season alone, I'd rather have Brady, Rodgers, Smith, Brees, Newton, Stafford, Winston, Wilson, and Ryan. Probably Cousins, Wentz, and Carr as well. I'd seriously consider Prescott, Watson, Goff and Manning. NOT Rivers, Palmer, Roethlisberger, or Flacco, as I'm not sure those guys will even make it through the season.

If you're talking over the next four years (when Dalton's contract expires), the list changes a bit. I'd prefer Rodgers, Stafford, Ryan, Wentz, Goff, and Luck. I'd have to think about Wilson (lacking certain skills, but great intangibles); Newton/Mariota/Carr (injury risk), Winston (ingrained flaws) and Prescott/Watson (league is catching up to Prescott and may well do the same for Watson), but I'd probably have to roll the dice with them. I think Brady and Brees retire this year or next, Manning too; Smith is just having a good year; and Cousins equals Dalton (Dalton's just having a worse year).

(10-09-2017, 05:50 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Alex Smith is playing lights out this year, but over all, I wouldn’t take him over Andy. When I think of teams that fall off after a hot start, KC tops the list. Seems they regularly start hot then falter. Could be my imagination though.

I've always said that Alex Smith is superior to Andy and nothing this year has changed that,

I will say I have him easing ahead of CP9 and Phillip Rivers. But there are a couple young QBs that are making a case to move up (Wentz, Prescott).

So from a Dalton hater: I'll put these above him:

Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Cousins
Stafford
Wilson
Carr
Winston
Ryan
Newton
Rothlesberger
Smith
Mariota
Prescott

So I got him around 15. In a couple years he may over take some of the older QBs (Rothlesberger, Brees) but he will have some younguns on his heels (Wentz, Watson, Goff)

(10-09-2017, 06:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've always said that Alex Smith is superior to Andy and nothing this year has changed that,

I will say I have him easing ahead of CP9 and Phillip Rivers. But there are a couple young QBs that are making a case to move up (Wentz, Prescott).

So from a Dalton hater: I'll put these above him:

Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Cousins
Stafford
Wilson
Carr
Winston
Ryan
Newton
Rothlesberger
Smith
Mariota
Prescott

So I got him around 15. In a couple years he may over take some of the older QBs (Rothlesberger, Brees) but he will have some younguns on his heels (Wentz, Watson, Goff)

15-18 range is about right

Trying to Rank players is an exercise in futility...most of them are as good as but not worse than. Tier system is only way to go and even then people complain the order they are listed in the tier which isn't the point.

Why Carr? Injured
Why Cousins? Not anything special
Why Mariota? Injured

Not sure I would put Newton higher either??

(10-09-2017, 07:47 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Why Carr? Injured
Why Cousins? Not anything special
Why Mariota? Injured

Not sure I would put Newton higher either??

It seems like a decent amount of people here have Dalton ranked from 8-10 which would probably be 2nd tier.

(10-09-2017, 05:58 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Hell throw Matt Ryan in as well dude is just as good as Andy but everyone acts like he is superior to him. Andy is flat out underrated and it is because the media can't stomach that they didn't see his success coming when he was drafted.

First of all, Matt Ryan IS better than Dalton. 4 time Pro Bowler,
1st team All-Pro in 2016, MVP 2016, OROY 2008...

As for your second point, the media was all about Dak Prescott last year, and NOBODY saw his success coming. 

Are any of you guys the same ones that were calling him crap after 2 weeks? I never understood that.

(10-10-2017, 12:55 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: As for your second point, the media was all about Dak Prescott last year, and NOBODY saw his success coming. 

Yeah, people had really high expectations when Dalton took over a team that quitter abandoned with a new OC and no OTAs.  You had the majority of "experts" claiming 0-16.

Prescott had a great rookie season, but let's face it...he has a very different supporting cast at offensive line and RB.  

My ranking would have him


I take these guys over him:

-Brady
-Rodgers
-Brees
-Matt Ryan

And I see him as a virtual tie with Alex Smith, Matt Stafford, and Russell Wilson.

So, that basically means, in the Top 10.

Notably absent of that list of names: Andrew Luck and Cam Newton. I like Dalton over both of them. Luck is the best comparison to Dalton. His teams have been sorely lacking in offensive line and are thin in offensive weapons. They have (historically) played in a much weaker division with the Titans and Jags being perennial doormats until just recently.

Dalton doesn't seem to get much credit for doing what he has done in (historically) the toughest division in the league.

(10-10-2017, 07:17 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, people had really high expectations when Dalton took over a team that quitter abandoned with a new OC and no OTAs.  You had the majority of "experts" claiming 0-16.

Prescott had a great rookie season, but let's face it...he has a very different supporting cast at offensive line and RB.  

Dak was just the first example that came to mind. Point is, Dalton not getting attention from the national media has nothing to do with his draft position or expectations coming into the league, and everything to do with his abysmal record in the playoffs and on the big stage in primetime  (for the most part).