While the running game may not be putting up great numbers, they must be doing something right, because the play action game has been pretty substantial since Lazor has taken over.

I'm excited to see more use of play action, and excited to see how that effects the running game. Andy's play action passes from under center seem to be working wonders from what I've seen.

I feel that this teams use of the pass will eventually open up running lanes too.

Much to be excited for!

I admit I'm surprised we can play action at all given our inability to run.

(10-10-2017, 04:30 PM)Joelist Wrote: I admit I'm surprised we can play action at all given our inability to run.

Yeah .. the only thing I can think of is the play calling is a little less predictable and teams are probably still like "Oh look, it's 1st down and Jeremy hill is in, they must be running it."

I wish Andy could perform a better fake, and try to pump fake too.

His fakes are just fine. I guess you missed the play in the game where Andy faked out the entire Buffalo LB corps and hit Uzomah for 21 yards.

No, they're not. He probably pump fakes twice a year, and his play action passes are like 1 yard away from the RB. There are many QBs who perform play action fakes better (regardless if they have a running game or not). Andy's play action fake is just a waste of 0.5 seconds in his drop back, which counts for something because of the subpar offensive line. The only reason a defense would fall for one of his fakes is because the pre-snap formation looked like a run (or Jeremy Hill is in).

One type of pump that he doesn't fake out, is the gasoline pump.

Here, he drove away from a gas station with the pump still attached. "That's our quarter-back" *cry*

http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/06/andy-dalton-drove-gas-station-pump-connected

Boomer Esiason should give seminars on the play action fake.

He was the best at it.

(10-10-2017, 10:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: No, they're not. He probably pump fakes twice a year, and his play action passes are like 1 yard away from the RB. There are many QBs who perform play action fakes better (regardless if they have a running game or not). Andy's play action fake is just a waste of 0.5 seconds in his drop back, which counts for something because of the subpar offensive line. The only reason a defense would fall for one of his fakes is because the pre-snap formation looked like a run (or Jeremy Hill is in).

He had problems with his play action fake early in his career. The same with most QBs coming out of college because of the offenses they run. But Dalton has improved in this area for a few years now and actually looks decent doing it. If he had a run game that actually scared defenses it would look alot better...

As for pump fakes it takes large hands so you don't lose the football and they cause strip fumbles often...

(10-10-2017, 05:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I wish Andy could perform a better fake, and try to pump fake too.

Must have missed the Bills game, there were some great play action fakes in that game.

Part of Andy's play action issues is that they have recently run a lot of looks from the gun. I personally feel that PA works way better under center. Much more convincing as the QB's back is turned to the Defense. Riskier I suppose, but more effective.

Dalton had a fine pump action motion a few years back. However, I think the ball left his hand and counted as a fumble at one point. Ever since then, he hasn't attempted. I'm assuming the coaches said DONT DO THAT AGAIN EVEN IF IT WORKS MORE THAN IT FAILS!

(10-10-2017, 05:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I wish Andy could perform a better fake, and try to pump fake too.

(10-10-2017, 10:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: No, they're not. He probably pump fakes twice a year, and his play action passes are like 1 yard away from the RB. There are many QBs who perform play action fakes better (regardless if they have a running game or not). Andy's play action fake is just a waste of 0.5 seconds in his drop back, which counts for something because of the subpar offensive line. The only reason a defense would fall for one of his fakes is because the pre-snap formation looked like a run (or Jeremy Hill is in).

Ignoring your complaint on his play action fake, which is fine... you say .5 seconds counts for something, but then you also say you want him to try and pump fake more, which would have the same problem of using up time that the OL isn't giving him. You're counteracting your own complaints.

Maybe... just maybe, you're complaining about Dalton for the sake of complaining about Dalton.

(10-10-2017, 10:42 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Boomer Esiason should give seminars on the play action fake.

He was the best at it.

He was one of a kind....i don't get why it's so difficult to execute.

(10-11-2017, 02:00 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: He was one of a kind....i don't get why it's so difficult to execute.

It isn't difficult, but .... you've got to have a really good OL to make it work like Boomer did. Remember that he completely turned his back to the OL on every running play and on every play action pass.

He had complete confidence in his line and knew that they'd never let him be crushed by someone he couldn't see.

Dalton has never had the same quality of OL that Boomer did.

(10-11-2017, 12:37 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ignoring your complaint on his play action fake, which is fine... you say .5 seconds counts for something, but then you also say you want him to try and pump fake more, which would have the same problem of using up time that the OL isn't giving him. You're counteracting your own complaints.

Maybe... just maybe, you're complaining about Dalton for the sake of complaining about Dalton.

No, I like Dalton, and I'm saying a pump fake would be more rewarding than his poor playaction fake, it's compounded by a poor running game. Andy Dalton does not pump fake, if there was such a statistic he'd probably average 1 every 8 games. When you've got rookies guarding AJ Green and they fall for his in and out fakes, it works, but it would help if Andy faked or even looked another way. In college he'd at least twist his shoulders, so there's no reason to think it's because he can't hold the ball on a pump.

A high percentage of AJ's passes are stared down, there's no progression to AJ, defenders know the ball is coming (hence tighter coverage/picks). 

Granted he barely has time to do anything (pump or even work a progression) behind that line, but even when he had a good line he rarely pumped. He's no Ben R. in that facet.

In regards to the play action fake, yeah Boomer was the best, but there are other QBs who at least complete the motion with an empty hand. I think a pump fake in that time would work better than his poorly performed playaction. You can tell he's performing it just because the play calls for it, not because he wants to do it to the best of his ability lol - he's afraid the defenders are right there.

We only need 17 points a game to make it competitive, so small things like that (not turning the ball over so much), and hitting FGs from distance matter. We need an automatic 45-50 yard FG kicker if Fat boy isn't that.

(10-10-2017, 10:42 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Boomer Esiason should give seminars on the play action fake.

He was the best at it.

Yes he was, would tuck that ball into his gut and the defense had no clue.  But he also had a top notch running game to keep the LB's and safeties honest.  We don't have that - yet.

The whole point of a playaction fake is to fake a run...we're TERRIBLE running the ball and TERRIBLE run blocking. It doesn't hold much weight.

A lot of times Qb's don't really put the ball in the pocket because of the look they see pre snap. So they know going to the line that pressure is coming so rather than selling the full fake they abort the fake for the most part and get into their drop. You see Andy do this from time to time, but it's not because he can't execute a fake it's because he is expecting someone to come in unblocked so he has to go quicker than expected. When he wants to he can sell it as good as anyone, see the play where he faked the zone read and through it behind the linebackers who bit up on the run action.