(10-15-2017, 05:41 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: The premise is they get little to no production from their top picks in year 1; and you only have 5 years of control over your 1st round picks.

Bad teams can’t afford to redshirt their top draft talent.  Especially when they don’t acquire free agents.

I don’t expect you to comprehend

Is the bengals roster bad?

Should they have played Ogbuehi over Whitworth or Andre Smith year one? He played the next year when Dre left...poorly yes. Should Dennard or Jackson start over Dre and Jones? Dennards injuries kept him from alot of his snaps not the team. Should Ross automaticly jump AJ Green Brandon Lafell or Tyler Boyd?

Your whole argument is based on thr fact they are a first round pick that's all. Not if they all are ready to play or if they have players ahead of them. Just hey he's a first round pick he should be starting.

(10-15-2017, 06:03 AM)Synric Wrote: Is the bengals roster bad?

Should they have played Ogbuehi over Whitworth or Andre Smith year one? He played the next year when Dre left...poorly yes. Should Dennard or Jackson start over Dre and Jones? Dennards injuries kept him from alot of his snaps not the team. Should Ross automaticly jump AJ Green Brandon Lafell or Tyler Boyd?

Your whole argument is based on thr fact they are a first round pick that's all. Not if they all are ready to play or if they have players ahead of them. Just hey he's a first round pick he should be starting.

Lol. You’re making my point for me, but you don’t even realize it

Maybe they should be drafting different players, who can come in and contribute in areas/positions of need, opposed to their recent strategy which has failed miserably.

Like a MLB DT, TE or a OL this year instead of a flashy, glass fragile wr

(10-15-2017, 06:03 AM)Synric Wrote: Is the bengals roster bad?

Hmm, chief. They are 8-12-1 over the last two seasons, and going to be drafting top 10 again next year.

Their roster is bad. Everyone else can comprehend this.

I know this is going to shock some people.... The Bengals are talented and deep and have been for many seasons. A first round pick, or any draft pick for that matter, is rarely going to come in and just oust the incumbent unless it's at a position that is awful and/or old. The Bengals aren't awful anywhere where they are old. And they are too young where they are awful. The Bengals aren't scrapping two year old draft picks for 1 year old draft picks. It makes no sense.

Show me 1st rounders who have come in and made an immediate impact on talented teams their first season. It's rare. The Bengals grossly underachieved last season, and picked high. That doesn't mean there isn't great talent. People can bash LaFell, but he's been productive and knows a lot more than a rookie coming in. Nobody from college is going to come in and immediately knock him off.

If AJ Green had been drafted by the Bengals in 2006, he wouldn't have had a big impact his rookie season. I'm sorry, but he just wouldn't have gotten more targets or been in enough plays over Chad & TJ or Chirs Henry. In fact, AJ Green is very similar to Chris Henry in terms of skill set and they probably wouldn't have even looked at him in 2006 because, why draft a 4th WR option with THAT roster already there?

Same thing with CBs. What guy coming out of college is going to immediately replace Jones or Kirkpatrick? Nobody.

Jackson the III is super impressive to me because, even after missing playing time last season, he's looking great for a young CB. Like, unbelievable potential. When he was picked people were saying "WTF???". But he looks like a great long term pick.

I didn't love with the Ross pick at first, but it makes perfect sense given the Bengals roster and THIS particular draft class that came out. I am hopeful that the team will look at the O-line in a big way in the 2018 draft. Those guys can come in and play right away. The 2017 had too many gambles and was probably the worst draft ever for O-line. I don't blame them for passing for super talented guys like Lawson, Willis, Ross, etc.

(10-15-2017, 08:19 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: Hmm, chief.  They are 8-12-1 over the last two seasons, and going to be drafting top 10 again next year.

Their roster is bad.  Everyone else can comprehend this.

Maybe the bad offensive coordinator had something to do with that record?

(10-15-2017, 06:03 AM)Synric Wrote: Is the bengals roster bad?

Should they have played Ogbuehi over Whitworth or Andre Smith year one? He played the next year when Dre left...poorly yes. Should Dennard or Jackson start over Dre and Jones? Dennards injuries kept him from alot of his snaps not the team. Should Ross automaticly jump AJ Green Brandon Lafell or Tyler Boyd?

Your whole argument is based on thr fact they are a first round pick that's all. Not if they all are ready to play or if they have players ahead of them. Just hey he's a first round pick he should be starting.

When you are an organization that doesn't rely much on free agency...WHERE do the roster improvements come from the next year?

Instead of addressing positions of need, the Bengals draft positions like CB that get paid heavily in free agency so they can let guys like Joseph and Hall walk and save money.

Like when they drafted Eifert, the Board was on fire about how the Bengals were going to unleash a 2 TE offense like the Patriots. Nope...they drafted Eifert because Gresham was a free agent in a couple years and they didn't want to pay him.

Some fans are perfectly fine with this. But, if the Bengals would occasionally draft guys to play positions of need with the hopes of starting them in Year 1...the product would be better.

(10-15-2017, 08:19 AM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: Hmm, chief.  They are 8-12-1 over the last two seasons, and going to be drafting top 10 again next year.

Their roster is bad.  Everyone else can comprehend this.

You're spitting fire today! I think people have trouble evaluating the roster because the defense is so good.

PFF or some similar site analyzed Super Bowl teams and figured out how many average starters a team was away from a Super Bowl. The premise being yes every team has some really good players but the NFL is more than just about having stars...you need your weak links to be minimal.

Our weak links, as I see them are:

1 ) 4 offensive lineman that aren't starter quality.
2 ) A WR2 that isn't starting quality. (Lafell has declined this year for whatever reason.)
3 ) TE - We counted on Eifert. Kroft shows potential...but I would say he's still a below average starter for now.
4 ) DT - Billings/Sims aren't great. The defense does a lot of things like moving MJ inside to hide this. Plus, Geno is so dominant.

So that's 7 positions. And I won't get into LB where Minter is signed for 1 year or positions like that. We'll assume they're good.

So we know that we don't rely heavily on free agency. Where do we upgrade these positions?

Is it internal development? Maybe for TE and DT. Maybe Ross eventually develops into a WR2. Maybe Ced and Fisher get better?

When you rely on internal development and they don't develop...you're in trouble though.

Things happen with 1st Round picks. Jackson getting injured was unforeseen.

Ross though? He has major injury red flags and he's small for a WR being sub-190 lbs.

Ced had an ACL injury when the Bengals drafted him. And people were like Oh he's behind because he was injured. We spent a 1st Round pick on a guy who blew out his knee 3 months earlier. Plus, he gave up a lot of sacks in college. Just a bad pick.

(10-15-2017, 11:26 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You're spitting fire today! I think people have trouble evaluating the roster because the defense is so good.

PFF or some similar site analyzed Super Bowl teams and figured out how many average starters a team was away from a Super Bowl. The premise being yes every team has some really good players but the NFL is more than just about having stars...you need your weak links to be minimal.

Our weak links, as I see them are:

1 ) 4 offensive lineman that aren't starter quality.
2 ) A WR2 that isn't starting quality. (Lafell has declined this year for whatever reason.)
3 ) TE - We counted on Eifert. Kroft shows potential...but I would say he's still a below average starter for now.
4 ) DT - Billings/Sims aren't great. The defense does a lot of things like moving MJ inside to hide this. Plus, Geno is so dominant.

So that's 7 positions. And I won't get into LB where Minter is signed for 1 year or positions like that. We'll assume they're good.

So we know that we don't rely heavily on free agency. Where do we upgrade these positions?

Is it internal development? Maybe for TE and DT. Maybe Ross eventually develops into a WR2. Maybe Ced and Fisher get better?

When you rely on internal development and they don't develop...you're in trouble though.

Things happen with 1st Round picks. Jackson getting injured was unforeseen.

Ross though? He has major injury red flags and he's small for a WR being sub-190 lbs.

Ced had an ACL injury when the Bengals drafted him. And people were like Oh he's behind because he was injured. We spent a 1st Round pick on a guy who blew out his knee 3 months earlier. Plus, he gave up a lot of sacks in college. Just a bad pick.

Who would you have picked then?  Offensive line is obviously the first need according to your list and rightly so. There were no O-Lineman worthy of that pick.

You have #2 Wideout as your second need and we drafted a WR. He was hurt in college but AJ needs a speedy receiver on the other side and they got that.  


Kroft is better than O.J Howard at this point. I know they have Brate but I have watched Tampa this year and he looks lost and wouldnt have played much either. 

After Geno I havent seen much from the D-Line either but there wasnt much there either and they hadnt seen Billings play yet. He can cover up a lot of flaws so Im not too worried about that. 

The only rookies that were drafted in the first round after the Bengals that I see are having stand out years are: Dashaun Watson (12 td's 2 rushing td's) Malik Hooker (3 Int's), Evan Engram (26 rec, 200 yards), and T.J. Watt (3 sacks)

Who would you have picked to come in and start immediately?  The only one I see would have been Hooker or Maybe Foster but he isn't tearing it up either and he has been injured.

(10-15-2017, 11:14 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: When you are an organization that doesn't rely much on free agency...WHERE do the roster improvements come from the next year?

Instead of addressing positions of need, the Bengals draft positions like CB that get paid heavily in free agency so they can let guys like Joseph and Hall walk and save money.

Like when they drafted Eifert, the Board was on fire about how the Bengals were going to unleash a 2 TE offense like the Patriots. Nope...they drafted Eifert because Gresham was a free agent in a couple years and they didn't want to pay him.

Some fans are perfectly fine with this. But, if the Bengals would occasionally draft guys to play positions of need with the hopes of starting them in Year 1...the product would be better.

Easy you have players from later rounds you have developed. Guys like Geno Atkins Carlos Dunlap Clint Boiling George Iloka Shawn Williams Tyler Kroft Nick Vigil....

You complain they didn't address the interior line with an FA but what about Hopkins and Westerman? 

The only thing you have going is that Cedric Ogbuehi had a bad year last year at Rt and the Bengals still decided to roll with him at LT anyway.

(10-15-2017, 09:34 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Show me 1st rounders who have come in and made an immediate impact on talented teams their first season. It's rare.

This is comical In picks 20-30, the ‘better’ teams, I can show you tons of 1st picks who come in and contribute immediately. You are delusional

I guess TJ watt isn’t helping the Steelers. Lol

It doesn't matter what round they're drafted if they can get the job done. VB wasn't drafted at all so in hind sight had he been a #1 pick he would still be VB. 
I REALLY don't care which round they're picked. First rounders are boom or bust. Always have been and always will be.    The Bengals are far from the only team to strike out with first round picks. 

(10-15-2017, 03:36 PM)grampahol Wrote: It doesn't matter what round they're drafted if they can get the job done. VB wasn't drafted at all so in hind sight had he been a #1 pick he would still be VB. 
I REALLY don't care which round they're picked. First rounders are boom or bust. Always have been and always will be.    

Lol. This is bengals fan deluded logic at its finest

Now you’re making excusing and justifying missing on your 1st round picks because of outlier players like Burfict.

You make no sense. It just helps you rationalize the bengals failures

(10-15-2017, 03:34 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: This is comical   In picks 20-30, the ‘better’ teams, I can show you tons of 1st picks who come in and contribute immediately.  You are delusional

I guess TJ watt isn’t helping the Steelers. Lol

Help them do what? Lose to the Bears and get blown out by the Jags? 

(10-15-2017, 04:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Help them do what? Lose to the Bears and get blown out by the Jags? 

Get 3 sacks and help them Have a better record than the bengals.

(10-15-2017, 04:35 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: Get 3 sacks and help them Have a better record than the bengals.

**** TJ Watt. Our rookie has 3+ sacks too.

(10-15-2017, 12:20 PM)bengalhoel Wrote: Who would you have picked then?  Offensive line is obviously the first need according to your list and rightly so. There were no O-Lineman worthy of that pick.

You have #2 Wideout as your second need and we drafted a WR. He was hurt in college but AJ needs a speedy receiver on the other side and they got that.  


Kroft is better than O.J Howard at this point. I know they have Brate but I have watched Tampa this year and he looks lost and wouldnt have played much either. 

After Geno I havent seen much from the D-Line either but there wasnt much there either and they hadnt seen Billings play yet. He can cover up a lot of flaws so Im not too worried about that. 

The only rookies that were drafted in the first round after the Bengals that I see are having stand out years are: Dashaun Watson (12 td's 2 rushing td's) Malik Hooker (3 Int's), Evan Engram (26 rec, 200 yards), and T.J. Watt (3 sacks)

Who would you have picked to come in and start immediately?  The only one I see would have been Hooker or Maybe Foster but he isn't tearing it up either and he has been injured.

Jonathan Allen grades out at 80.6 on PFF. He'd be amazing next to Geno Atkins.

I know Foster has been hurt, but our LB group would be insane with him there too.

(10-15-2017, 04:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: **** TJ Watt. Our rookie has 3+ sacks too.

Lol. You’re way baffled on this one. Were talking about getting production from 1st round picks. This is well above your pay grade, son

Stay in the kids pool

(10-15-2017, 12:34 PM)Synric Wrote: Easy you have players from later rounds you have developed. Guys like Geno Atkins Carlos Dunlap Clint Boiling George Iloka Shawn Williams Tyler Kroft Nick Vigil....

You complain they didn't address the interior line with an FA but what about Hopkins and Westerman? 

The only thing you have going is that Cedric Ogbuehi had a bad year last year at Rt and the Bengals still decided to roll with him at LT anyway.

Hopkins and Westerman?

You can't just throw a 4th or 5th Round pick at a position and consider it addressed.

In most any draft...we're lucky if 2 of the guys turn into quality starters.

With a free agent...we atleast see tape of the guy playing against NFL level competition.

(10-15-2017, 03:34 PM)OrangeLacroix Wrote: This is comical   In picks 20-30, the ‘better’ teams, I can show you tons of 1st picks who come in and contribute immediately.  You are delusional

I guess TJ watt isn’t helping the Steelers. Lol

Yeah...it's a myth that the homers perpetuate. The '1st Round picks don't start on good teams' myth. They of course do.

And IF draft picks were so unreliable...why is our entire strategy built around drafts and shunning free agency.

(10-15-2017, 04:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Help them do what? Lose to the Bears and get blown out by the Jags? 

Typical Steeler bashing. They've won 6 Super Bowls. We've won 5 playoff games in our entire franchise history.