I like the assumption that nobody was talking about the police until CK. There was a lot of talk about it before him, and there actually seems to be less now because of his choice in how to get people talking about what they were already talking about.

This is getting a little close to P&R I'd say.

(10-19-2017, 01:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There are plenty of people who feel that nothing is wrong with the country. There in lies the divide.

For Trump to get elected...a lot of people liked him.

In every election some peoples candidate wins...others lose.

Where do protests stop?

I'm not talking about Trump. There are plenty of republicans that are well aware of the issue of racial inequality in the country, and acknowledge that it needs to be fixed. Trump is only part of the flag conversation because he decided that he needed to be. These protests are also NOT about him (though for some, for a week, they were (unfortunately)).

And protests will never stop. There will always be something that we can do better, and there will always be one side that feels that regressing is the proper course of action.

(10-18-2017, 10:25 PM)CJ2etc Wrote: Buddy and I have season tickets - 3 club level seats.  We served together in Desert Storm.  The CK thing was bothering us but it was one stupid, ignorant spoiled brat.  Then another joined, and another, and it just isn't something we can ignore anymore.  We always tell the story of how we woke up in the desert in January of 1991 at 2am and listened to the win on shortwave armed forces radio. Anthem and flag are sacred to us and I know quite a few others who feel the same way.  We haven't attended a home game since and haven't watched them on TV either.  We were huge NFL fans and when we weren't at the Bengals games we were texting with each other and a few other veteran friends for the other Sunday, Monday and Thursday night games.  We are done, we won't be renewing and we were talking earlier today about it - the bond is gone, the passion we felt has been replaced by a sense of betrayal.  It's one of those things that if you haven't experienced what those symbols mean to people like us you just can't understand it.  Too many have lost too much and that is the time we reflect and pay respect to those who paid the ultimate price. The older I get the more sentimental I get when I hear the anthem and I always start running through my mental list of those I served with who are no longer with us.  And to take a knee or disrespect that 2 minutes is just not something we are not only willing to ignore, but to pay money to participate in.  Just can't do it and I assure you there are a lot of us out here.  The NFL will never get people like us back.  Ironic that these people protest the police while surrounded and escorted on and off the field by police.

(10-19-2017, 11:33 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You'd think that military veterans wouldn't have such thin skin.  

Serve in a combat situation against people that want to remove your head from your body?  Handled.

Watch someone peacefully protest for a cause that they believe in?  Falls apart.

(10-19-2017, 11:53 AM)sandwedge Wrote: You have no clue what you are talking about unless you have had to hold a dying friend, or write that god awful letter to his parents or wife.

I'm a retired military vet and I haven't watched a game since after week 2. I called and received a refund for my unused portion of my Sunday Ticket.
I really never gave the one or two morons that were disrespecting the salute to our nation much thought because: a.) As a career military man I realized early that we were all one team.  When you serve you don't have to like everyone you serve with but when push comes to shove we all serve together and we have each other backs. And therefore we don't really care much what anybody else thinks as long as the team is successful.   b.) when you serve you learn that you sacrifice some of your freedoms for the betterment of the team and over all the betterment of the nation and therefore we know that street civilians could never understand that.   c.)  Part of the reason we serve is to insure the rights of everyone - whether we like what they do or not.
However, as the issue escalated and after some reflecting I realized by virtue of the fact that I watch the games and go to a few,  I was supporting the very same individuals and organization that would turn their backs on the flag in favor of more notoriety and still make their millions.  And therefore have decided to not add to their paychecks anymore.
If these guys want to make a difference, they can start by taking a page out of Chris Longs playbook (dude is giving all his weekly pay checks to charities to fund scholarships).  I was always told early in my military career by my superiors (before I became one) "If you come to the table with problems you better be bringing some solutions with you"  The solution is not to publicly show disrespect for the country which enabled you to play American football to start with.

Thank All of You Who Have Served or are Serving!

(10-19-2017, 01:43 PM)BengalD Wrote: I'm a retired military vet and I haven't watched a game since after week 2. I called and received a refund for my unused portion of my Sunday Ticket.
I really never gave the one or two morons that were disrespecting the salute to our nation much thought because: a.) As a career military man I realized early that we were all one team.  When you serve you don't have to like everyone you serve with but when push comes to shove we all serve together and we have each other backs. And therefore we don't really care much what anybody else thinks as long as the team is successful.   b.) when you serve you learn that you sacrifice some of your freedoms for the betterment of the team and over all the betterment of the nation and therefore we know that street civilians could never understand that.   c.)  Part of the reason we serve is to insure the rights of everyone - whether we like what they do or not.
However, as the issue escalated and after some reflecting I realized by virtue of the fact that I watch the games and go to a few,  I was supporting the very same individuals and organization that would turn their backs on the flag in favor of more notoriety and still make their millions.  And therefore have decided to not add to their paychecks anymore.
If these guys want to make a difference, they can start by taking a page out of Chris Longs playbook (dude is giving all his weekly pay checks to charities to fund scholarships).  I was always told early in my military career by my superiors (before I became one) "If you come to the table with problems you better be bringing some solutions with you"  The solution is not to publicly show disrespect for the country which enabled you to play American football to start with.

Thank All of You Who Have Served or are Serving!

No it would seem you joined the military to not only protect people's freedom to protest, but also to sit and watch it whether you agree or not.  

(10-19-2017, 01:47 PM)michaelsean Wrote: No it would seem you joined the military to not only protect people's freedom to protest, but also to sit and watch it whether you agree or not.  

Like I said - not watching it anymore!

(10-19-2017, 01:40 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I'm not talking about Trump. There are plenty of republicans that are well aware of the issue of racial inequality in the country, and acknowledge that it needs to be fixed. Trump is only part of the flag conversation because he decided that he needed to be. These protests are also NOT about him (though for some, for a week, they were (unfortunately)).

And protests will never stop. There will always be something that we can do better, and there will always be one side that feels that regressing is the proper course of action.

When you say issues with racial equality. Are you talking about police targeting certain groups? Or are there other things? Please summarize what specifically you feel needs fixed.

(Note: I just want to understand the issue better. I'm probably out of touch with it at some level.)

(10-19-2017, 02:03 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I see we're letting the kids eat at the grownup table now.

Try to use an original line and not a common old line.

Your cause started with Kaepernick and they had to Reshape it from what Kaepernick intended and Morph it into something else that they still are not totally clear about to save face.

Meanwhile, Police officers were getting gunned down execution style around that same time period.

(10-19-2017, 11:33 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You'd think that military veterans wouldn't have such thin skin.  

Serve in a combat situation against people that want to remove your head from your body?  Handled.

Watch someone peacefully protest for a cause that they believe in?  Falls apart.

The thickness of my skin isn't my problem.  The fact that I have principles and adhere to them and choose to support people and organizations that align with them is.  Funny that banning someone from praying or wearing something that shows their faith is not allowed but this is ok.  Sorry, that doesn't pass my smell test. 

(10-19-2017, 01:13 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You did see me apologize in there, right? You read my post, I assume.

Do I need to do it again?

Sometimes assumptions are safe. Sometimes they backfire.

For what it's worth, I do know a couple African Americans that don't support the flag protest. Not coincidentally, these guys also feel that there is no issue with the treatment of African Americans by police and others of authority. Sandwedge acknowledges that mistreatment. That's rare, from what I've seen.

I have no issue with peaceful protest, but the players doing this are harming their cause more than helping it.  They are alienating the majority of the audience.  Case in point, I know a staunch conservative who now refuses to go to Ted Nugent concerts.  He loves the music, but Ted uses his concerts as a platform to push his political views, and that's not why he's there.  Entertainment is escapism for most people.  Pissing off the people whose minds you need to change to accomplish your goal is totally counterproductive.  

People are also quick to point out the hypocrisy of the protesters.  They are literally perpetrating a stereotype of a profession in protest of a stereotype against their race.

To me, it's just a horribly lazy protest.  We've all heard the 37% statistics, but African Americans account for 35% of the US gang population, as well.  If they want to keep African Americans out of prison, they should devote their time and money towards keeping African Americans out of the gang lifestyle.  

Have watched the Bengals games per nobody kneeling as of yet.

But have not tuned in to other games because of Anthem protest.

They have the right to kneel and I have the right to do something else with my money while they are playing.

If the Bengals start then it will be my last Bengals game as well and cancel my season tickets immediately.

Why ? Simple, because it is my right to do so. End of story.

I'm not a veteran so I guess I'll never know exactly what it feels like to see people kneel during the anthem. I will say that if I had to weather an insult towards my own profession or life or something before I watched football I think I'd probably just do it.

But again, stuff like this paints veterans as people who are simply on another level from normal people in this country. Being a veteran seems to be something completely unrelatable to the average citizen, so nothing I can ever imagine or do will put me in the mindset of a veteran. I simply can't relate. Then again, I don't know what it's like to be shot by the police, either.

So since this is a black guys vs veterans war I guess I'll just stay out of it. I'm just a white citizen so I'm lucky I can just watch football and be blissfully ignorant of the issues.

If the NFL wants to help. Donate 10% of all TV revenue to their cause and let the players throw in 5% of their paychecks.

Bet they could do much more with billions of dollars at their disposal.

But somehow do not think they care enough to put their money where their mouths is.

Would just be a drop in the bucket from each rich players pocket but would go a long way in helping.

Got to show me. Taking a knee for a minute says nothing to me except that you are a lazy disrespectful snot nosed punk.

Got to do more than that if you really believe in your cause.

Sorry

(10-19-2017, 02:14 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Have watched the Bengals games per nobody kneeling as of yet.

But have not tuned in to other games because of Anthem protest.

They have the right to kneel and I have the right to do something else with my money while they are playing.

If the Bengals start then it will be my last Bengals game as well and cancel my season tickets immediately.
 
Why ? Simple, because it is my right to do so. End of story.

I heard on the radio that the TV networks are now not showing the national anthem and are going to commercial breaks during the anthem to try not to alienate the viewers.

The posts in this thread has gone outside of Bengals related matters and into political matters. Therefore, the thread is now being closed. If you wish to continue discussions on the kneeling during the national anthem issue, please take the conversation to the P&R Forum. There are several threads there related to that issue or you may start your own.