Ok, so I see a bunch of people throwing down a wish list of guys who likely wouldn't come here. But, do you even realize what skillset a head coach needs? What role a HC has compared to an OC or DC?

Let's put together a job description:

1 ) Must be able to scout college talent and make wise draft picks.
2 ) Must be able to motivate the team and keep it focused.
3 ) Must be able to prepare team for games mentally and physically (training camp).
4 ) Must be willing to work under the unique management structure that the Bengals have in place. Must not complain about this management structure.
5 ) Must hold players accountable and not be afraid to call players out.
6 ) Must be a catalyst for change...and create a winning organizational culture.
7 ) Must be able to create an overall philosophical identity of the team and disseminate this down to the coordinators and position coaches. Must give coordinators autonomy to implement their plays/schemes but make sure your overall philosophy is followed.
8 ) Must be able to find bargains in free agency, and be willing to move on from underperforming veterans.
9 ) Must be willing to challenge the status quo. Must despise not making the playoffs and not be content with losing a playoff game because you appeared in the playoffs.
10 ) Must create a culture where young football players are given an opportunity to develop.

Thoughts? What am I missing?

I think that when we look at this list objectively, that a lot of coaches may not be able to handle some of these tasks. Like pluck a Patriots assistant and I doubt they have the experience scouting college players because they have a great personnel department.

Marvin does none of this? So not a requirement in Cincinnati.

(10-25-2017, 01:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Marvin does none of this? So not a requirement in Cincinnati.

Yeah. He shouldn't be the HC anymore.

But what do we need? In the NFL, a lot of times they look at the best teams and take their assistants. But, how many Patriots coaches have failed?

It's because here, they won't have Tom Brady and the Patriots organizational structure.

We need a coach that can create that structure.

The only thing a HC for the Bengals must be in the eyes of Mike Brown: submissive

(10-25-2017, 01:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The only thing a HC for the Bengals must be in the eyes of Mike Brown: submissive

Honestly, I doubt we get an Alpha Coach that comes in here and works in this structure. No Cowher. No Gruden.

That's why Coughlin didn't come in 2003.

(10-25-2017, 01:31 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, I doubt we get an Alpha Coach that comes in here and works in this structure. No Cowher. No Gruden.

That's why Coughlin didn't come in 2003.

I agree. I think the only options that will be considered are someone internal to the organization right now (Guenther is the favorite IMO) or Hue Jackson if he's fired because they are familiar with him.

I could easily see Guenther promoted to HC, Coyle promoted to DC, and Lazor sticking as OC unless Jackson is available to come in as OC.
Oh, and Paul Alexander keeping his job because "reasons".

I'd say the next coach is, in order of probability:

1 ) Guenther
2 ) Jackson
3 ) Lazor
4 ) Alexander
5 ) Outside candidate

Here's the con on Guenther...he's basically been with Marvin Lewis since 2002.

Do you think he could spend basically 15 years with Marvin and then as a HC be drastically different?

(10-25-2017, 01:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ok, so I see a bunch of people throwing down a wish list of guys who likely wouldn't come here. But, do you even realize what skillset a head coach needs? What role a HC has compared to an OC or DC?

Let's put together a job description:

1 ) Must be able to scout college talent and make wise draft picks.
2 ) Must be able to motivate the team and keep it focused.
3 ) Must be able to prepare team for games mentally and physically (training camp).
4 ) Must be willing to work under the unique management structure that the Bengals have in place. Must not complain about this management structure.
5 ) Must hold players accountable and not be afraid to call players out.
6 ) Must be a catalyst for change...and create a winning organizational culture.
7 ) Must be able to create an overall philosophical identity of the team and disseminate this down to the coordinators and position coaches. Must give coordinators autonomy to implement their plays/schemes but make sure your overall philosophy is followed.
8 ) Must be able to find bargains in free agency, and be willing to move on from underperforming veterans.
9 ) Must be willing to challenge the status quo. Must despise not making the playoffs and not be content with losing a playoff game because you appeared in the playoffs.
10 ) Must create a culture where young football players are given an opportunity to develop.

Thoughts? What am I missing?

I think that when we look at this list objectively, that a lot of coaches may not be able to handle some of these tasks. Like pluck a Patriots assistant and I doubt they have the experience scouting college players because they have a great personnel department.

You forgot:

11) Must be a lap dog to ownership

Apparently Marvin at least has some say in the decision-making now.  A new HC will not be granted the same leverage.

(10-25-2017, 01:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ok, so I see a bunch of people throwing down a wish list of guys who likely wouldn't come here. But, do you even realize what skillset a head coach needs? What role a HC has compared to an OC or DC?

Let's put together a job description:

1 ) Must be able to scout college talent and make wise draft picks.
2 ) Must be able to motivate the team and keep it focused.
3 ) Must be able to prepare team for games mentally and physically (training camp).
4 ) Must be willing to work under the unique management structure that the Bengals have in place. Must not complain about this management structure.
5 ) Must hold players accountable and not be afraid to call players out.
6 ) Must be a catalyst for change...and create a winning organizational culture.
7 ) Must be able to create an overall philosophical identity of the team and disseminate this down to the coordinators and position coaches. Must give coordinators autonomy to implement their plays/schemes but make sure your overall philosophy is followed.
8 ) Must be able to find bargains in free agency, and be willing to move on from underperforming veterans.
9 ) Must be willing to challenge the status quo. Must despise not making the playoffs and not be content with losing a playoff game because you appeared in the playoffs.
10 ) Must create a culture where young football players are given an opportunity to develop.

Thoughts? What am I missing?

I think that when we look at this list objectively, that a lot of coaches may not be able to handle some of these tasks. Like pluck a Patriots assistant and I doubt they have the experience scouting college players because they have a great personnel department.

What will sell me on the next HC, no matter who it is, is if they acknowledge that games are won and lost in the trenches. He needs to speak on the importance of the offensive line above all other positions on the offense and pretty much the same thing on the defensive side of things. 

(10-25-2017, 01:49 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: You forgot:

11) Must be a lap dog to ownership

Apparently Marvin at least has some say in the decision-making now.  A new HC will not be granted the same leverage.

12) Can never be closer than 10 millions dollars to the cap ceiling. 

(10-25-2017, 01:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I agree. I think the only options that will be considered are someone internal to the organization right now (Guenther is the favorite IMO) or Hue Jackson if he's fired because they are familiar with him.

I could easily see Guenther promoted to HC, Coyle promoted to DC, and Lazor sticking as OC unless Jackson is available to come in as OC.
Oh, and Paul Alexander keeping his job because "reasons".

He's like a cockroach....

(10-25-2017, 01:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'd say the next coach is, in order of probability:

1 ) Guenther
2 ) Jackson
3 ) Lazor
4 ) Alexander
5 ) Outside candidate

I'm as diehard and loyal a Bengals fan as you will ever find, and I've stuck around through everything over the last 3+ decades...but making Piano Man the head coach would be too f'n much.

(10-25-2017, 03:19 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'm as diehard and loyal a Bengals fan as you will ever find, and I've stuck around through everything over the last 3+ decades...but making Piano Man the head coach would be too f'n much.

Yeah, I'd be out too.  If he ain't farred this year, I may say to hell with it anyway.

Prior experience running an asylum a plus.

MB is always going to push the envelope on who he drafts if the talent is there.

The next HC will inherit some "unique personalities". With more likely to come.

Guenther's struggled to control the D at times. I cant see him establishing championship poise to this roster.

We need a coach players will respect.

(10-25-2017, 01:49 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: You forgot:

11) Must be a lap dog to ownership

Apparently Marvin at least has some say in the decision-making now.  A new HC will not be granted the same leverage.

See Number 4.

13.) Distill "Fear" and discipline into every player. ( See Zimmer "I'm NOT havin' this SHIT!" quote on Hard Knocks.)

(10-25-2017, 02:56 PM)Wyche Wrote: He's like a cockroach....

Cockroaches can't play a Beethoven Sonata.

He's like a sophisticated cockroach.

(10-25-2017, 01:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'd say the next coach is, in order of probability:

1 ) Guenther
2 ) Jackson
3 ) Lazor
4 ) Alexander
5 ) Outside candidate

You forgot Simmons.

(10-25-2017, 03:19 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'm as diehard and loyal a Bengals fan as you will ever find, and I've stuck around through everything over the last 3+ decades...but making Piano Man the head coach would be too f'n much.

You just know Mike Brown is having one of his relative employees read him this and just said to him, with the cockiest smirk... "Oh, yeah? Hold my $0.79 Speedway Coffee and watch this."

(10-25-2017, 03:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, I'd be out too.  If he ain't farred this year, I may say to hell with it anyway.

We desperately need someone from outside the organization.

Marvin was good when he came here but he was here so long that he grew into the culture that was already here. We need someone from outside that can change it.