Let's say for the sake of this discussion, Merv retires and Alexander is thanked for his service but not re-signed. Then one of the coaches currently on our coaching staff ends up becoming the new HC (even after MB interviews outside candidates).

Regardless of who else the new HC brings back (assuming no Paul Alexander, of course), which of our illustrious coaching staff would you at least give a chance before you give up on the team?

For me, if they do end up hiring Guenther or Simmons, I'd probably give them at least a season to see how they do, how they handle the players, how they handle the coordinators, gameplans, clock management, HALFTIME ADJUSTMENTS, etc. If they make good decisions and/or show a propensity to learn from their mistakes, I'll probably support them and the team. If they are basically just Mervin Lewis 2.0, then I'll be done with this team.

If Brown hires any one else from our current coaching staff, I'll give you guys an opportunity to convince me to stay but I'm not promising anything other than that.

(10-27-2017, 02:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Let's say for the sake of this discussion, Merv retires and Alexander is thanked for his service but not re-signed. Then one of the coaches currently on our coaching staff ends up becoming the new HC (even after MB interviews outside candidates).

Regardless of who else the new HC brings back (assuming no Paul Alexander, of course), which of our illustrious coaching staff would you at least give a chance before you give up on the team?

For me, if they do end up hiring Guenther or Simmons, I'd probably give them at least a season to see how they do, how they handle the players, how they handle the coordinators, gameplans, clock management, HALFTIME ADJUSTMENTS, etc. If they make good decisions and/or show a propensity to learn from their mistakes, I'll probably support them and the team. If they are basically just Mervin Lewis 2.0, then I'll be done with this team.

If Brown hires any one else from our current coaching staff, I'll give you guys an opportunity to convince me to stay but I'm not promising anything other than that.

Guenther or Simmons are the only candidates worth considering at this point.
If we see the same stuff we saw with Marvin at the helm, I'd be ready to drop them after just one season. They don't get a 3+ year window to change things around given they've already been in the org for a long time. If they were going to change things for the better, we should see results within the first year.

People complain about Lewis's coaching tree, but there sits Zimmer up in Minny with 5 wins using a 3rd string QB. I'd give Paulie a chance, and I'd give Simmons a chance. Lazor as well, though I admit I am not as familiar with him.....

I'd rather Paulie g stay as d coordinator since he seems to have gotten in a rhythm (not including the Steelers game) and would not want to give up our top 5 defense to have someone else take a year learning yet again... as for head coach if they promote from within we will soon be revisiting the 90's

Guenther deserves it, but my opinion is that we need an offensive minded coach after all these years of Marvin.

(10-27-2017, 02:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Guenther or Simmons are the only candidates worth considering at this point.
If we see the same stuff we saw with Marvin at the helm, I'd be ready to drop them after just one season. They don't get a 3+ year window to change things around given they've already been in the org for a long time. If they were going to change things for the better, we should see results within the first year.

Feel exactly the same way. I'd feel bad, but because they've been here under Merv for awhile, they don't get more than a year from me unless they show they're significantly different than Merv (in a good way).

(10-27-2017, 02:58 PM)Sled21 Wrote: People complain about Lewis's coaching tree, but there sits Zimmer up in Minny with 5 wins using a 3rd string QB. I'd give Paulie a chance, and I'd give Simmons a chance. Lazor as well, though I admit I am not as familiar with him.....

I might give Lazor a shot depending on how the rest of the season plays out, but frankly, even then, I'm not sure. On the one hand, he's new-ish to the organization, but on the other, I'm not sure he's ready yet to be a HC.

(10-27-2017, 03:10 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: I'd rather Paulie g stay as d coordinator since he seems to have gotten in a rhythm (not including the Steelers game) and would not want to give up our top 5 defense to have someone else take a year learning yet again... as for head coach if they promote from within we will soon be revisiting the 90's

I would not be upset if the new HC kept Guenther as the DC.

(10-27-2017, 03:12 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Guenther deserves it, but my opinion is that we need an offensive minded coach after all these years of Marvin.

Agreed.

Guenther has been with Marvin since like 2002. I doubt his philosophy will be much different than Marvin.

Zimmer wasn't with Marvin long and he was with Parcells for a long time. Same with Gruden. He wasn't here long.

See a trend? Guys from outside.

Simmons has been here forever too.

(10-27-2017, 03:31 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Guenther has been with Marvin since like 2002. I doubt his philosophy will be much different than Marvin.

Zimmer wasn't with Marvin long and he was with Parcells for a long time. Same with Gruden. He wasn't here long.

See a trend? Guys from outside.

Simmons has been here forever too.

Jonathan Hayes - 15 years
Paul Guenther - 13 years
Paul Alexander - 23 years
Kevin Coyle - 11 years (2 stints with Miami DC mixed in there)
Darrin Simmons - 15 years
James Urban - 7 years

Urban myer??? Lmao jk

(10-27-2017, 02:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Let's say for the sake of this discussion, Merv retires and Alexander is thanked for his service but not re-signed. Then one of the coaches currently on our coaching staff ends up becoming the new HC (even after MB interviews outside candidates).

Regardless of who else the new HC brings back (assuming no Paul Alexander, of course), which of our illustrious coaching staff would you at least give a chance before you give up on the team?

For me, if they do end up hiring Guenther or Simmons, I'd probably give them at least a season to see how they do, how they handle the players, how they handle the coordinators, gameplans, clock management, HALFTIME ADJUSTMENTS, etc. If they make good decisions and/or show a propensity to learn from their mistakes, I'll probably support them and the team. If they are basically just Mervin Lewis 2.0, then I'll be done with this team.

If Brown hires any one else from our current coaching staff, I'll give you guys an opportunity to convince me to stay but I'm not promising anything other than that.

Only give them one season?  ouch we might turn into the browns if that's all the time you give lol..

I'd Keep Guenther
Urban
Simmons
Haslett

Let Coyle go again.

(10-27-2017, 02:58 PM)Sled21 Wrote: People complain about Lewis's coaching tree, but there sits Zimmer up in Minny with 5 wins using a 3rd string QB. I'd give Paulie a chance, and I'd give Simmons a chance. Lazor as well, though I admit I am not as familiar with him.....

The problem with that statement is that Zimmer isn't from Lewis' coaching tree. Zimmer is from the Barry Switzer/Bill Parcells coaching tree. Zimmer was the DC of the #1 overall  (#2 scoring) defense in Dallas in '03 under Parcells.

The Bengals brought him in because the "defensive guru" and his TWO DC choices of Leslie Frazier and Chuck Bresnahan both failed at making a good defense, so they brought Zimmer in. He was already who he was.

Jay Gruden was a product of the Jon Gruden coaching tree, as he was with the Bucs when they won the SB.

Vance Joseph was the DB coach for the Texans under Wade Phillips, when they had the #3 passing defense in both '11 and '13.

- - - - - - - - -


Marvin's actual coaching tree is basically just a little Charlie Brown Christmas tree with Hue Jackson being the only "ornament".





(As for the OP, none, clean house. Burn it all to the ground.)

I don't want anyone on the current staff. After 15 years of Merv, with much of this staff in place for 15-26 years, we desperately need a completely fresh start.

If I had to choose, it'd be Lazor by a mile. He's done a great job turning around the offense, I want an offensive mind, and he's as close to "outside the organization" as it would get (only with Bengals for 2 years). He's worked under some great coaches in Holmgren, Gibbs and Reeves.

The only other semi-decent options are Guenther and Simmons. They've been with the Bengals since 2005 and 2003 respectively. They've really only worked for Mervin Lawis. No thanks. Plus the offense really needs some attention that I'm not sure these two would provide.

(10-27-2017, 04:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't want anyone on the current staff. After 15 years of Merv, with much of this staff in place for 15-26 years, we desperately need a completely fresh start.

If I had to choose, it'd be Lazor by a mile. He's done a great job turning around the offense, I want an offensive mind, and he's as close to "outside the organization" as it would get (only with Bengals for 2 years). He's worked under some great coaches in Holmgren, Gibbs and Reeves.

The only other semi-decent options are Guenther and Simmons. They've been with the Bengals since 2005 and 2003 respectively. They've really only worked for Mervin Lawis. No thanks. Plus the offense really needs some attention that I'm not sure these two would provide.

20 something yards in the second half against the steelers?? I don't know if "great" is the right word here. Also, he has been the oc for THREE games and that's enough to make him hc???  :paul:

(10-27-2017, 04:56 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: 20 something yards in the second half against the steelers?? I don't know if "great" is the right word here. Also, he has been the oc for THREE games and that's enough to make him hc???  :paul:

He's been the OC for 4 games, and we went from 0 TD's in 2 games to averaging 20.5 points under Lazor. That's with the pick 6 against GB taken out. So yes...despite the bad half against the Steelers, we've seen a massive turnaround on offense. Considering that he's dealing with the 31st rated line (according to PFF) and the 31st ranked run game (both in yards and per carry), I'd say that's nothing short of a miracle. 

As for "giving him the job after 4 games as OC", you have to consider that he's also coached elsewhere. Had some success as OC with the Dolphins. Was QB coach when Nick Foles had that ridiculous season for the Eagles. He's shown promise. Sure, he doesn't have a lengthy resume as a coordinator, but neither did Vance Joseph, and that didn't stop him from getting the Broncos job.

Like I said, I want someone from the outside, but I prefer Lazor over one of Merv's lifers.

(10-27-2017, 05:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He's been the OC for 4 games, and we went from 0 TD's in 2 games to averaging 20.5 points under Lazor. That's with the pick 6 against GB taken out. So yes...despite the bad half against the Steelers, we've seen a massive turnaround on offense. Considering that he's dealing with the 31st rated line (according to PFF) and the 31st ranked run game (both in yards and per carry), I'd say that's nothing short of a miracle. 

As for "giving him the job after 4 games as OC", you have to consider that he's also coached elsewhere. Had some success as OC with the Dolphins. Was QB coach when Nick Foles had that ridiculous season for the Eagles. He's shown promise. Sure, he doesn't have a lengthy resume as a coordinator, but neither did Vance Joseph, and that didn't stop him from getting the Broncos job.

Like I said, I want someone from the outside, but I prefer Lazor over one of Merv's lifers.

Billy Lazor would get my vote as well.

After 15 years of a defensive minded coach, I think you really need to go the other direction. I also really don't want anyone who's been ingrained with this staff for years. Lazor would be the freshest 'in house' option, who also has some experience. 

(10-27-2017, 05:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He's been the OC for 4 games, and we went from 0 TD's in 2 games to averaging 20.5 points under Lazor. That's with the pick 6 against GB taken out. So yes...despite the bad half against the Steelers, we've seen a massive turnaround on offense. Considering that he's dealing with the 31st rated line (according to PFF) and the 31st ranked run game (both in yards and per carry), I'd say that's nothing short of a miracle. 

In addition, this isn't exactly Lazor's offense, I'm sure. Even with the bye week, there's not enough time for Lazor to instill HIS offense. I would be surprised if this isn't Zampese's playbook (which is pretty much Hue's playbbok which is pretty much Gruden's playbook) just called in a less inept manner (an ept manner?).

(10-27-2017, 05:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: In addition, this isn't exactly Lazor's offense, I'm sure. Even with the bye week, there's not enough time for Lazor to instill HIS offense. I would be surprised if this isn't Zampese's playbook (which is pretty much Hue's playbbok which is pretty much Gruden's playbook) just called in a less inept manner (an ept manner?).

If they hire in-house- which they should not- Lazor would be the best pick because he is really a new guy with a new perspective.

Forest Gregg was the best coach in the history of the franchise and he came from the outside. That team was tough mentally and physically and Gregg held people accountable.

They need an outside hire who does not accept anything short of excellence and with a winning pedigree like Gregg ( who played for Lombardi and won several championships)

Easy choice here. You go with Marvs son Marcus Lewis. Then give David Lippencott full roster control and a promotion. See if the piano man has any sons or daughters we could bring in to keep the OL on the right track.

Guenther most likely inside guy.

Put me in the camp that doesn't want anyone retained and or promoted to HC from the current staff except maybe Lazor ?

Lazor has done an excellent job so far, we'll see how he ends up this season and keep in mind he's handicapped by Marv and Co.