The Browns obviously weren't making the playoffs this year, even if they win out to finish 8-8, so the McCarron deal was obviously just building for the future.

That's what I don't understand because everyone is acting like this will break the Browns season when they're dog shit anyways.

With knowing that they won't be doing anything this year anyways, so McCarron was for the future, is it possible that he gets traded in the offseason?

He'll be 28 in September, but not a lot of wear-and-tear on him, and Hue is familiar with him, so will Hue pull the trigger over drafting a franchise QB who could be a bust?

Around The Horn and everywhere is bashing the Browns for botching this trade, so it's good to know that we didn't screw it up.

He will be either a restricted or unrestricted free agent depending on the outcome of an arbitration over his first year when he was placed on NFI list. Either way, no trade unless we sign him first.

The best we can do if he's a RFA is put a high tender on him and hope some team bites...

Yes he can be traded. A team doesn't necessarily have to give up their first up to get him or whatever pick they end up tendering him at. Also if he is not considered a restricted free agent they can franchise him and trade him.

I don't see the incentive for a team to trade for him when they can just wait it out and sign him. The ruling on him being either UFA or RFA will have a huge impact on how things go. Unless someone like Cleveland decides to trade for him and extend him, there's just no reason for another team to trade for him.

(11-01-2017, 09:13 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I don't see the incentive for a team to trade for him when they can just wait it out and sign him. The ruling on him being either UFA or RFA will have a huge impact on how things go. Unless someone like Cleveland decides to trade for him and extend him, there's just no reason for another team to trade for him.

If that is the case then why did some one offer him a deal at the trade deadline?  Answer teams do stupid stuff for Qbs.

(11-01-2017, 07:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The Browns obviously weren't making the playoffs this year, even if they win out to finish 8-8, so the McCarron deal was obviously just building for the future.

That's what I don't understand because everyone is acting like this will break the Browns season when they're dog shit anyways.

With knowing that they won't be doing anything this year anyways, so McCarron was for the future, is it possible that he gets traded in the offseason?

He'll be 28 in September, but not a lot of wear-and-tear on him, and Hue is familiar with him, so will Hue pull the trigger over drafting a franchise QB who could be a bust?

Around The Horn and everywhere is bashing the Browns for botching this trade, so it's good to know that we didn't screw it up.

If he doesn't earn the free agency status through his arbitration hearing (why the hell don't we know that?  Does anyone think that shit would float in pitt?  NE?  Dallas?) then I can't see why it would change anything for the Browns.  If anything, he wouldn't have taken the beating behind that very suspect line.

They could use all of next year to evaluate him for next to no financial stake before opting to sign him long term.  I hope it happens, but I am not holding my breath.  They will likely fall in love with some young QB that looks great in short and a t-shirt at the combine and bet their farm (again) on an unproven.  

(11-01-2017, 07:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The Browns obviously weren't making the playoffs this year, even if they win out to finish 8-8, so the McCarron deal was obviously just building for the future.

That's what I don't understand because everyone is acting like this will break the Browns season when they're dog shit anyways.

With knowing that they won't be doing anything this year anyways, so McCarron was for the future, is it possible that he gets traded in the offseason?

He'll be 28 in September, but not a lot of wear-and-tear on him, and Hue is familiar with him, so will Hue pull the trigger over drafting a franchise QB who could be a bust?

Around The Horn and everywhere is bashing the Browns for botching this trade, so it's good to know that we didn't screw it up.

Hue isn't going to be around next year in Cleveland if the Browns don't win some games.  Even if they could somehow manage to split their last 8 games, a HC who is 5-27 over 2 years is tough to sell a fan base on giving a third year.  Still, the McCarron deal was probably the last glimmer of hope Hue had of saving his job.  He'll be fired at season's end, and no way he gets another NFL HC job.  I mean, when the Raiders fired him, he couldn't even land a coordinator job.  He crawled back here as a position coach.  

It's still possible McCarron gets traded this off-season, but it won't be to Cleveland and it won't be for what Cleveland was going to give us.  If it does, it's probably because the Bengals cleaned house on the coaching staff and the new HC wants more picks to bring in guys that fit his system.

(11-02-2017, 01:01 AM)Whatever Wrote: Hue isn't going to be around next year in Cleveland if the Browns don't win some games.  Even if they could somehow manage to split their last 8 games, a HC who is 5-27 over 2 years is tough to sell a fan base on giving a third year.  Still, the McCarron deal was probably the last glimmer of hope Hue had of saving his job.  He'll be fired at season's end, and no way he gets another NFL HC job.  I mean, when the Raiders fired him, he couldn't even land a coordinator job.  He crawled back here as a position coach.  

It's still possible McCarron gets traded this off-season, but it won't be to Cleveland and it won't be for what Cleveland was going to give us.  If it does, it's probably because the Bengals cleaned house on the coaching staff and the new HC wants more picks to bring in guys that fit his system.

Only one team would bring him back...

And I honestly think he would have success with that team.




That's us. By the way.

(11-01-2017, 07:12 PM)pally Wrote: He will be either a restricted or unrestricted free agent depending on the outcome of an arbitration over his first year when he was placed on NFI list.  Either way, no trade unless we sign him first.

The NFL Players Association is fighting to change McCarrons status from Restricted Free Agent to Unrestricted Free Agent. Bengals claim McCarrons rookie year he spent most of it on the injured list and should only have 3 years with Bengals.  Players Association points out this means he spent some time not on injured list his rookie year and McCarron should be in his 4th season as a Bengal.  

If Players Association wins. McCarron is an unrestricted free agent at the end of this season, meaning the Bengals have no contract to him at all.  It will be a big pay day for McCarron as teams go after him in Free Agency this off season.  McCarron is just gone and Bengals get nothing.  The Bengals Franchise Tag of McCarron becomes too risky.  QB is the most expensive Franchise Tag in NFL.  The Franchise Tag on McCarron would cost the Bengals 20 million dollars.  They also have to pay Dalton. They also have to rebuild at other positions.  Do NOT expect Bengals to get anywhere near a 20 Million Dollar Franchise Tag of McCarron.  It's too risky....No, if McCarron is ruled an unrestricted free agent, just consider the mid round pick gone and not much was spent on drafting him and nothing gained in losing him. 

Now if NFL keeps McCarron as a restricted free agent as he is now and the Players Association loses, the Bengals can place a first round tender on him, or a second round tender or an original round tender.  Now a 1st round tender would cost the Bengals 4 million dollars. The problem is what if no team is willing to give the Bengals a 1st round pick for McCarron.  Now the Bengals are getting back into more money for McCarron in 2018 than they can go. ....Then there is a second round tender of 3 million dollars and this is what I think Bengals do.  Very good chance a team gives up a 2nd round pick to Bengals for McCarron and Bengals put their 3 million right back into the bank. ..One last option is an original tender at 2 million.  For this a team gets McCarron for his original draft spot, which was a 5th round pick I believe.  A 5th round pick isn't very much considering Browns just blew our trade for a 2nd and 3rd round pick.  ...So I see the middle choice of a 2nd round tender as the smart move.  Going for a 1st round tender is too greedy and maybe no teams offer a 1st round pick and Bengals get zonked picking the wrong door on Lets Make A Deal.   The 2nd Round tender at 3 million sounds fool proof.  A team like the Browns will give up a 2nd round pick and Bengals keep there 3 million.  Bengals still get a 2nd round pick, which isn't bad.  

So that's how I see it if McCarron stays an unrestricted free agent.   Bengals should not go greedy on 1st round tender or cheap on 5th round tender...If Bengals go 3 Million on 2nd round tender we already know Cleveland and other teams swoop in and give Bengals a 2nd round pick for McCarron.  Bengals put their 3 million back in the bank. They don't get yesterdays trade for a 2nd and 3rd round pick, but what the heck, they still get a 2nd round pick. If they till get Browns 2nd round pick at start of round 2, that is like a 1st round pick.  Pick 33 in the draft....Browns have already shown their poker hand that they will trade a 2nd round for McCarron.  ...THIS IS THE MOVE....!st round tender is risky, no team may offer a 1st round.  5th round tender is too cheap.  The 2nd round tender is just right.  We can still get a 2nd round pick for McCarron. 

Again, in Players Association wins Bengals get nothing for McCarron.   If McCarron stays on restricted status, The Bengals would be wise to go 2nd round tender on him. Not 1st round tender, that's playing it too greedy and we might not get a 1st round offer. A 2nd round tender is a sure thing and we will get that 2nd round pick after all, probably Browns pick 33 which to me is like a 1st round pick when you draft # 1 in 2nd round. You got to do a little Poker Playing here. Browns just offered this pick. We can get it with a second round tender. Now if we go 1st round tender there may not be any teams willing to give up a 1st round. We know we can get this top pick 2nd round, we just saw the poker cards. Mike Brown doesn't want to pay a 20 million franchise tag or a 4 million tender to McCarron, but he can make a 2nd round tender offer at a 3 million, get his top round 2 pick, and put his 3 million back in his bank account, and THAT is what Mike Brown should do and probably will do. It's just dollars and cents and sense. In fact, since they've talked to the Browns on a trade, I see no collusion in a follow up call about the trade and the NFL, and maybe talking another way for Bengals and Browns to meet around the barn on this in February or March. The NFL stopped it for now, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I'd even be for signing AJ, if we intended to trade him. A team friendly contract, maybe a year, or two, and use him as trade bait going forward.

Most likely we will tender him, force a team to give up a pick. Either way, it feels like us not moving forward with a trade NOW was a mistake.

(11-01-2017, 09:13 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I don't see the incentive for a team to trade for him when they can just wait it out and sign him. The ruling on him being either UFA or RFA will have a huge impact on how things go. Unless someone like Cleveland decides to trade for him and extend him, there's just no reason for another team to trade for him.

It is not as simple as a guarantee your team can sign him as 31 others could sign him as well.

A trade is only guarantee a team has his rights to fend off others.

But not sure if we can trade him after the season and prior to the draft if he is not under contract yet.

(11-02-2017, 03:22 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I'd even be for signing AJ, if we intended to trade him. A team friendly contract, maybe a year, or two, and use him as trade bait going forward.

Most likely we will tender him, force a team to give up a pick. Either way, it feels like us not moving forward with a trade NOW was a mistake.

I point out reasons why Bengals won't sign him.   We can forget Friendly Contract because you can bet your astro turf that McCarrons agent and lawyers are pushing for the Players Association to get NFL to change his status to unrestricted.  Plus McCarron was as good as traded, and that never sits well with a player traded but the deal falls through. We can throw out the word FRIENDLY as McCarron and his agents want out of Cincy and the big money to come from other team in 2018, and you can't blame McCarron for wanting as much money as he can get from another team. We can forget a Bengals cheap but Friendly Contract, it ain't happening.   

You're right, If he stays on restricted, most likely we tender him and hopefully at the 2nd round pick tender.  We already know we can get Browns top pick in round 2, which is like a 1st round pick. ......I already looked into this at length....Franchise Tag or signing him are too expensive. 1st round tender too risky and expensive.  5th round tender too cheap....If we can pull off the 2nd round tender and still get Browns pick at very start of round 2, THAT is a sweet deal that costs Mike Brown no 20 Million or 10 Million or 4 Million. It doesn't cost Mike Brown anything and he walks away with the first pick in Round 2.  That's not bad.

Yes, you are right to feel there was a trade mistake and it was the Browns celebrating on getting McCarron but not turning the trade into the NFL before the deadline. Both teams should appeal to the NFL to OK the deal, they have nothing to lose. ....Still the same deal can be made pretty much. No 3rd round pick, but we get Browns 2nd round pick 3 months down the road after the season, If we use the 2nd round tender offer on McCarron and have an under the table understanding with Cleveland to get McCarron there in spite of NFL nixing our Halloween Trick or Treat Trade.

(11-02-2017, 01:14 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Only one team would bring him back...

And I honestly think he would have success with that team.




That's us. By the way.

Even if we wanted to hire Hue as a HC, we couldn't.  It would be a PR nightmare.  How do you convince the fans that you're trying to win when you replace a guy that can't win a playoff game with a guy that can't win a game, period?

I'd be fine with bringing Hue back as a coordinator, but the head coach shine has definitely worn off on him.

I'm starting to echo the sentiments of others. I'd roll the dice on a college coach.

he will leave and we will get nothing.

Trading McCarron for a second round pick would have been a steal unless they plan to trade Andy and make AJ the starter.

standard result for the same front office that turned down a zillion draft picks from New Orleans to draft Akili Smith.

How many more example can we cite.

Neither Mike Brown nor Marv can think outside the box

(11-02-2017, 12:14 PM)bengals67 Wrote: he will leave and we will get nothing.

Trading McCarron for a second round pick would have been a steal unless they plan to trade Andy and make AJ the starter.

standard result for the same front office that turned down a zillion draft picks from New Orleans to draft Akili Smith.

How many more example can we cite.

Neither Mike Brown nor Marv can think outside the box

You know, when you criticize the front office for getting high second and 3rd round picks for McCarron, it just sounds silly. Yeah, the trade didn't go through, but that was due to the Browns ineptness, not MB's...

(11-02-2017, 12:31 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You know, when you criticize the front office for getting high second and 3rd round picks for McCarron, it just sounds silly. Yeah, the trade didn't go through, but that was due to the Browns ineptness, not MB's...

Yep...... just our bad luck.

I originally wanted to be mad at us too, but everyone is blaming the Browns when we're generally the media's whipping boy, even if it's not our fault.

I think we should have been active sooner, but maybe the Browns weren't interested, and it's also tough to get maximum value if we go to them first because they know that we're trying to get rid of him.

Hopefully it still happens in the offseason.

(11-01-2017, 09:10 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Yes he can be traded. A team doesn't necessarily have to give up their first up to get him or whatever pick they end up tendering him at. Also if he is not considered a restricted free agent they can franchise him and trade him.

We have the cap space. I'd strongly consider franchising him and trading him as you suggest.

The thing is...the Browns may not be as desperate and willing to make a rash decision to trade high picks for him.

(11-02-2017, 09:33 AM)Whatever Wrote: Even if we wanted to hire Hue as a HC, we couldn't.  It would be a PR nightmare.  How do you convince the fans that you're trying to win when you replace a guy that can't win a playoff game with a guy that can't win a game, period?

U mean a pretty nightmare like mixon? Or Pacman? Or burfict? We don't care about pr. And due legitimately has 0 wrs. Give Andy those wrs we don't win 1 game either. And they came a hell of a lot closer than we did to beating Steelers.