Bill Lazor took over the OC job after an 0-2 start where we averaged 4.5 points a game and had not crossed the goal line. The first 3 games with him at the helm we jumped to averaging 25 points a game and the tide seemed to have turned, to say the least !

However the last 2 games we've sorta hit a wall dropping to 15.5 points per game (7 via Dunlap pick six in Colts game). And I think we're at a pivot point.

Now this is not an indictment of Lazor at all. I feel up to this point he's been a massive positive influence. But as with all things football there's many layers to the problem !

My question is how much can we expect Lazor to do with Dumb and Dumber dictating who's on the field and what they do ? We drafted John Ross to help take the top of defenses, speed, speed, and more speed. And now we don't use him because he hasn't passed some ML fitness for duty exam. And when he is on the field we ask him to block, run 7 yard routes and reverses.

ML for the most part refuses to highlight players abilities and demands they fit into the system ! Why draft a speed player with questionable health in the first round and then demand he do everything you didn't draft him for ?

PA who I'm sure has the ear of Mike Brown and the title AHC decides who's playing on the O-line and he refuses to give up on Bodine and our pocket on passing plays and running game suffers immensely.

Marvin demands we stick to the system and to hell with using our players to their strengths ! The piano man will not admit a mistake and make changes to the line. And Mike Brown sits and counts all his money that he saved on not fixing the O-line.

It's a terminal system, it's the charging elephant with the bullet in it's brain that doesn't know it's dead yet.

Can Bill Lazor really successfully scheme around ML (Dumb) and PA (Dumber) ?

JOHN GRUDEN!

Bill Lazor has been proven to be a better OC, but ultimately this isn't his system. Also this team should be a run first team with Mixon as the premier back, but the offensive line is terrible and dragging this team down. Unless something dramatic happens I can't see us not drafting a Left tackle in the first this year.

(11-03-2017, 12:17 PM)Okeana Wrote: Bill Lazor has been proven to be a better OC, but ultimately this isn't his system.  Also this team should be a run first team with Mixon as the premier back, but the offensive line is terrible and dragging this team down.  Unless something dramatic happens I can't see us not drafting a Left tackle in the first this year.

Drafting a Left Tackle will not fully address the issue.  First things first:

1) Fire Marvin - his message is old / stale
2) Fire Alexander - he does not develop talent nor devise schemes well enough for his lineman to execute
3) Draft LT in RD1
4) Draft C in RD2 - yes I said it RD2 (or if none available find any hack off the street)
5) Draft T in RD3
6) Find a decent free agent G prior to the draft, or draft a G as the 2nd pick in RD3 - hopefully the comp pick for Zeitler

A complete retool of the line needs to be completed, similar to what the Vikings did this year.  Boling can stay as he has proven he can work with decent talent around him.

If Ross can't get on the field as the 2nd WR promote Malone to this position.

(11-03-2017, 12:06 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Bill Lazor took over the OC job after an 0-2 start where we averaged 4.5 points a game and had not crossed the goal line. The first 3 games with him at the helm we jumped to averaging 25 points a game and the tide seemed to have turned, to say the least !

However the last 2 games we've sorta hit a wall dropping to 15.5 points per game (7 via Dunlap pick six in Colts game). And I think we're at a pivot point.

Now this is not an indictment of Lazor at all. I feel up to this point he's been a massive positive influence. But as with all things football there's many layers to the problem !

My question is how much can we expect Lazor to do with Dumb and Dumber dictating who's on the field and what they do ? We drafted John Ross to help take the top of defenses, speed, speed, and more speed. And now we don't use him because he hasn't passed some ML fitness for duty exam. And when he is on the field we ask him to block, run 7 yard routes and reverses.

ML for the most part refuses to highlight players abilities and demands they fit into the system ! Why draft a speed player with questionable health in the first round and then demand he do everything you didn't draft him for ?

PA who I'm sure has the ear of Mike Brown and the title AHC decides who's playing on the O-line and he refuses to give up on Bodine and our pocket on passing plays and running game suffers immensely.

Marvin demands we stick to the system and to hell with using our players to their strengths ! The piano man will not admit a mistake and make changes to the line. And Mike Brown sits and counts all his money that he saved on not fixing the O-line.

It's a terminal system, it's the charging elephant with the bullet in it's brain that doesn't know it's dead yet.

Can Bill Lazor really successfully scheme around ML (Dumb) and PA (Dumber) ?

Well to this point Ross has been mostly hurt the entire time and not able to practice.. It doesn't help the offense to have him out there if hes not where or doing what hes suppose to be doing...   

He isn't just a Go.. route receiver either... so don't expect him to just streak down the field every play. we don't have the OL for deep plays that often.  Best way to use Ross will be to get the ball in his hands fast and let him outrun people.  But he has to show he can do it in practice before he gets on the game field.

So picking on them because Ross hasn't been healthy isn't really a valid argument.

(11-03-2017, 04:10 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well to this point Ross has been mostly hurt the entire time and not able to practice.. It doesn't help the offense to have him out there if hes not where or doing what hes suppose to be doing...   

He isn't just a Go.. route receiver either... so don't expect him to just streak down the field every play. we don't have the OL for deep plays that often.  Best way to use Ross will be to get the ball in his hands fast and let him outrun people.  But he has to show he can do it in practice before he gets on the game field.

So picking on them because Ross hasn't been healthy isn't really a valid argument.

We desperately need a deep threat on this team besides AJ Green ! Teams have no fear of our run game and rightfully so. Right now all they have to do is double AJ and protect the underneath. I realize we don't have the line for a lot of long developing routes, but the threat has to be there !

We need Ross to go out there and go deep every once in awhile and target him to maintain a vertical threat.

But the misuse of John Ross is far from the only problem we're dealing with !

(11-03-2017, 06:18 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: We desperately need a deep threat on this team besides AJ Green ! Teams have no fear of our run game and rightfully so. Right now all they have to do is double AJ and protect the underneath. I realize we don't have the line for a lot of long developing routes, but the threat has to be there !

We need Ross to go out there and go deep every once in awhile and target him to maintain a vertical threat.

But the misuse of John Ross is far from the only problem we're dealing with !

Without at least a good 3 seconds of clean pocket time, there is no deep threat, period.

(11-03-2017, 06:18 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: We desperately need a deep threat on this team besides AJ Green ! Teams have no fear of our run game and rightfully so. Right now all they have to do is double AJ and protect the underneath. I realize we don't have the line for a lot of long developing routes, but the threat has to be there !

We need Ross to go out there and go deep every once in awhile and target him to maintain a vertical threat.

But the misuse of John Ross is far from the only problem we're dealing with !

This is a true story.

(11-03-2017, 06:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Without at least a good 3 seconds of clean pocket time, there is no deep threat, period.

We have to find ways to present a deep threat, we have to. Right now teams can keep 9 guys within 15 yards of the LOS and put 2 on AJ. AJ can't be the only threat we have over the top ! 

Dalton should be in the shotgun 90% of the time. Use the twin RB's flanking him to get chips and blocks on free rushers. Use an extra linemen.

We've got to find ways to stretch a defense out because we have no run game. We really have no run game if the entire defense has no respect for a vertical threat other than AJ Green.

This is a fantastic thread and I would like to posit my own theory. Bill Lazor is a YUGE improvement over Ken Zampese and I agree with all of you who think Bill is definitely held back by Marvin Lewis and Paul Alexander. I happen to think game planning against the Cincinnati offense must be incredibly easy. With a bad line there are only a few plays available.

(11-03-2017, 06:18 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: We desperately need a deep threat on this team besides AJ Green ! Teams have no fear of our run game and rightfully so. Right now all they have to do is double AJ and protect the underneath. I realize we don't have the line for a lot of long developing routes, but the threat has to be there !

We need Ross to go out there and go deep every once in awhile and target him to maintain a vertical threat.

But the misuse of John Ross is far from the only problem we're dealing with !

We need a deep threat besides green. A running game. An offensive line that can block.

Really AJ Green is our only good offensive player.

Our offense is pretty horrible on paper.

(11-03-2017, 09:44 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is a fantastic thread and I would like to posit my own theory.  Bill Lazor is a YUGE improvement over Ken Zampese and I agree with all of you who think Bill is definitely held back by Marvin Lewis and Paul Alexander.  I happen to think game planning against the Cincinnati offense must be incredibly easy.  With a bad line there are only a few plays available.

I wouldn't exactly say that...It seems like Lazor is trying everything he can think of to get around thr bad oline. 

Against the Bills he was lining up in mostly2 WR 2 TE 1 back sets and trying to run up thr gut and use playaction...The offensive line had mixed success. Against the Steelers he was running alot of max protect split back sets and it didn't work because pressure up the middle. Last week against the Colts he abandoned all pretense of blocking the defense and released every eligible receiver into the routes...I think Lazor has been really impressive.