One of the worst things about this season (and there's a few to choose from) is that the OLine has been so bad that its been really hard to tell if really the rest of the team is as good as people think or not.

Core/Malone/ross/Lafell/Erickson/Boyd...take your pick of WR - they've all got potential but does not matter because of the OLine

Kroft/Uzomah/Hewitt ...without Eifert there are no stars but they can get the job done but are being impacted by the OLine

Dalton.....different opinions as some believe 2015 Andy is still there...others point to missed deep balls,etc, some want AJMc - whatever happens it does not happen due to the OLine

Mixon, Hill , Gio....Mixon is way better than J. Hill and best thing since sliced bread- even though he's nowhere near Hills rookie year and his YPC is bad, Gio we have no plan for - whatever it does not matter because of the OLine

even our defense ....billings, sims, Glasgow, whoever else at DT are fine/have potential but they're on the field so much because the OLine is causing 3&outs meaning we give up yards.

So are we genuinely golden apart from the OLine??.. or are we living in a fools paradise that we if we fix the OLine then the rest of the squad has great quality waiting to be unleashed??





 

this is a conservative organization.....they signed Ced & Fisher to 4 yr deals so they'll play at least 4 years even if they refuse to block anyone....
look at Bodine.....perfect example....a 4th rd pick who we never should of selected...he's just too weak....constantly gets pushed back into A.D.'s lap but he's still here after 4 years....
we all see the problems but management refuses to fix anything.....
w/ all of Eifert's injury issues & this being his last year on his deal we should of selected O.J. Howard in rd #1 but no.....we pick a "toy" in Ross....a fast guy who never plays.....
it's obvious to me we need help in our war room selecting players...
next draft use EVERY PICK WE HAVE ON O-LINE PLAYERS....
but of course that's not going to happen....Bodine will get a new 4 year deal....Ced & Fisher will both be starters next yr & this weak o-line nightmare will continue.....
SMH.....
w/ so much on the line....I just don't understand why this teams likes O-line players that are junk....
ps. & why does A.D keep throwing deep passes out of bounds...? I say trade him in the off season.....get whatever you can get & get someone else in as QB.....if you can't keep the ball in bounds you shouldn't be playing......

(11-06-2017, 08:31 AM)Steve Wrote: this is a conservative organization.....they signed Ced & Fisher to 4 yr deals so they'll play at least 4 years even if they refuse to block anyone....
look at Bodine.....perfect example....a 4th rd pick who we never should of selected...he's just too weak....constantly gets pushed back into A.D.'s lap but he's still here after 4 years....
we all see the problems but management refuses to fix anything.....
w/ all of Eifert's injury issues & this being his last year on his deal we should of selected O.J. Howard in rd #1 but no.....we pick a "toy" in Ross....a fast guy who never plays.....
it's obvious to me we need help in our war room selecting players...
next draft use EVERY PICK WE HAVE ON O-LINE PLAYERS....
but of course that's not going to happen....Bodine will get a new 4 year deal....Ced & Fisher will both be starters next yr & this weak o-line nightmare will continue.....
SMH.....
w/ so much on the line....I just don't understand why this teams likes O-line players that are junk....
ps. & why does A.D keep throwing deep passes out of bounds...?  I say trade him in the off season.....get whatever you can get & get someone else in as QB.....if you can't keep the ball in bounds you shouldn't be playing......

If that's the case then we run the real risk of 3 years in a row where the OLine is the worse unit on the squad.

Plus that means another season potentially where we can all say we have good/great potential across the board but its the Oline masking tha ta quality.

...that's the bit I'm struggling with - I think WR, TE and maybe even RB (some say QB too) still needs addressing but to be honest who knows because the go to answer is that its on the OLine.

The fact that we've won any games at all with this bunch of girls on the oline tells me the other positions are solid.

(11-06-2017, 08:13 AM)sonofstat Wrote: One of the worst things about this season (and there's a few to choose from) is that the OLine has been so bad that its been really hard to tell if really the rest of the team is as good as people think or not.

Core/Malone/ross/Lafell/Erickson/Boyd...take your pick of WR - they've all got potential but does not matter because of the OLine

Kroft/Uzomah/Hewitt ...without Eifert there are no stars but they can get the job done but are being impacted by the OLine

Dalton.....different opinions as some believe 2015 Andy is still there...others point to missed deep balls,etc, some want AJMc - whatever happens it does not happen due to the OLine

Mixon, Hill , Gio....Mixon is way better than J. Hill and best thing since sliced bread- even though he's nowhere near Hills rookie year and his YPC is bad, Gio we have no plan for - whatever it does not matter because of the OLine

even our defense ....billings, sims, Glasgow, whoever else at DT are fine/have potential but they're on the field so much because the OLine is causing 3&outs meaning we give up yards.

So are we genuinely golden apart from the OLine??.. or are we living in a fools paradise that we if we fix the OLine then the rest of the squad has great quality waiting to be unleashed??





 

I wouldn't say we'd be golden.  But the rest of the team could win with just a little blocking.  Might not be SB caliber but we would not be an embarrassment, like we are now.

besides Green, Dalton, Kroft, Mixon,or Gio We don't have any other players who would even be good enough to be active on a 46 man roster on 90 percent of the league

(11-06-2017, 08:13 AM)sonofstat Wrote: One of the worst things about this season (and there's a few to choose from) is that the OLine has been so bad that its been really hard to tell if really the rest of the team is as good as people think or not.

Core/Malone/ross/Lafell/Erickson/Boyd...take your pick of WR - they've all got potential but does not matter because of the OLine

Kroft/Uzomah/Hewitt ...without Eifert there are no stars but they can get the job done but are being impacted by the OLine

Dalton.....different opinions as some believe 2015 Andy is still there...others point to missed deep balls,etc, some want AJMc - whatever happens it does not happen due to the OLine

Mixon, Hill , Gio....Mixon is way better than J. Hill and best thing since sliced bread- even though he's nowhere near Hills rookie year and his YPC is bad, Gio we have no plan for - whatever it does not matter because of the OLine

even our defense ....billings, sims, Glasgow, whoever else at DT are fine/have potential but they're on the field so much because the OLine is causing 3&outs meaning we give up yards.

So are we genuinely golden apart from the OLine??.. or are we living in a fools paradise that we if we fix the OLine then the rest of the squad has great quality waiting to be unleashed??

I've went by PFF ratings and got bashed but the DT next to Atkins generally grades poorly. Our WR 2 generally grades poorly. Vigil generally grades poorly. Rey grades poorly. Kirkpatrick and Jones grade poorly. Jackson and Dennard grade out as above average or so.

There are definitely other issues, but if we could put 3 good lineman out there and a couple average ones and run the ball...things would look a lot better.

(11-06-2017, 09:59 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: besides Green, Dalton, Kroft, Mixon,or Gio We don't have any other players who would even be good enough to be active on a 46 man roster on 90 percent of the league

I really want to believe in Mixon as a bell cow runner but this is a great example of what I'm saying.

From here till the rest of the season no matter how bad he runs its on the OLine. 

He's anointed better than Gio, better than Hill and likely we will not draft a RB high either....but , he really has been bad - that YPC is excruciating (he did have that 67yard pass)

Right now the optimism on his running feels like its based on a bunch of pre-season talk -  just like Core was the most improved player, Og was looking stronger, etc.  ..with this OLine its real hard to know what we truly have offensively

Completely different season if we had re-signed Whit and Zeitler, replaced Bodine, and used one of our top three draft picks on a quality o linemen.

Like who on this board did not understand this before the draft?

Answer, only Mike Brown, Marv and Paul Alexander did not understand this or they did not give a dam because the organization was obligated to contracts with awful linemen and was going to make a lot of money this year even if they went 0-16.

The GM, head coach and o line coach all would be fired at the end of the season by any other NFL team or any major college football team.

(11-06-2017, 09:59 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: besides Green, Dalton, Kroft, Mixon,or Gio We don't have any other players who would even be good enough to be active on a 46 man roster on 90 percent of the league

Wow. You're usually Mr. Optimism...but you're definitely right on this. Just surprised that you said it.

It's not a convenient excuse it's the actual reason.

(11-06-2017, 11:28 AM)bengals67 Wrote: Completely different season if we had re-signed Whit and Zeitler, replaced Bodine, and used one of our top three draft picks on a quality o linemen.

Like who on this board did not understand this before the draft?

Answer, only Mike Brown, Marv and Paul Alexander did not understand this or they did not give a dam because the organization was obligated to contracts with awful linemen and was going to make a lot of money this year even if they went 0-16.

The GM, head coach and o line coach all would be fired at the end of the season by any other NFL team or any major college football team.

and that is absolutely what I want to believe....because that's a clear and potentially fixable problem  (not that we'll go and do that though!!)

But then I think that some of this was going on last year when we had Whit/Zeitler.  

Then I also look at LaFell, Core, Malone, Kroft, Uzomah, Ross and even Mixon's actual play /production and think even with this OLine should they have not shown more?  is that unrealistic...

I guess my fear is that we magically fix the line by investing heavily in draft & FA and so that excuse is gone ....and hey presto we're still here in 2018 with our running game mediocre and our offense stuck going through #18 and maybe #14 has actually regressed and we are in another non playoff season.

Here's what truly concerns me.

Does the history of this team suggest that fixing the offensive line will be done in a short amount of time (say, one off-season)? I would say no. So even if people don't want to put the blame squarely on Dalton (which is fair), how many seasons can he work behind a poor offensive line before he is effectively ruined? Just look what 1.5 seasons have done to him. Even in the rare instances where he has a clean pocket, scrambling is almost his default setting now. The guy is shell-shocked. His timing is off.

Once a QB's confidence is gone, can it ever really come back? And how many seasons are we willing to give him to find it again?

the challenge is that we can not get a clear evaluation of anyone without fixing the OL. We had challenges in the running game last year so how much of that was on the OL. We had defensive challenges last year....how much of that was OL. We struggled with a #2 receiver last year how much of that was OL. So the reality is the problems are likely deeper but the OL is so bloody awful that a fair eval on anything else.

I do think the one offensive bright spot has been the emergence of Tyler Kroft over the last several weeks. The kid catches what is thrown at him, he gets YAC, and seems to play with grit. Would like to see more like him

(11-06-2017, 08:55 AM)sonofstat Wrote: If that's the case then we run the real risk of 3 years in a row where the OLine is the worse unit on the squad.

Plus that means another season potentially where we can all say we have good/great potential across the board but its the Oline masking tha ta quality.

...that's the bit I'm struggling with - I think WR, TE and maybe even RB (some say QB too) still needs addressing but to be honest who knows because the go to answer is that its on the OLine.

imo, we DO NOT need any more WR's or RB's.....
#1 problem is the O-line....
until that's fixed ....this team is going nowhere....

Forget evaluations, it's pointless to try to fix anything else until the OL is fixed. Who believes that Brown's pride will allow him to give up on 2 recent first round Tackles?

The combination of having a bad O-line and a QB who performs terrible under pressure makes it the worst possible situation a team could have .

sonofstat Wrote:Mixon, Hill , Gio....Mixon is way better than J. Hill and best thing since sliced bread- even though he's nowhere near Hills rookie year and his YPC is bad, Gio we have no plan for - whatever it does not matter because of the OLine

My feelings about Mixon have been made known. Most are fawning over him with absolutely no justification. Hill has a poor run, Hill sucks, Mixon has a poor run, oline sucks. According to PFF Mixon broke a total of 0 tackles yesterday. Jeremy Hill has earned his position as our feature back and should remain so until Mixon earns it. Mixon is currently averaging 2.9 YPC and of rushers that puts him dead last in rushers that have minimum of 75 carries. he is a weapon in the passing game, but currently has no business getting the ball behind the LOS.

Believe it is just the OL personally.

Problem is by the time we fix OL players at other positions will tire of it and move along leaving other holes to fill.

(11-06-2017, 12:54 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Forget evaluations, it's pointless to try to fix anything else until the OL is fixed. Who believes that Brown's pride will allow him to give up on 2 recent first round Tackles?

I know Ced is one... are you talking about andre smith as the other 1st round tackle?