It's not the players. Every man on the Cincinnati roster was a beast in college and highly sought after in the draft. They were vetted, evaluated, worked out, poked, prodded, filmed, questioned, tested, Wonderlic-ed, and more.

Watch film on Russell Bodine at North Carolina. He was a mauler.

Watch film on Cedric Ogbuehi at Texas A&M. He was wicked good.

Watch film on Jake Fisher at Oregon. He was one of the best.

Watch film on Andre Smith at Alabama. He might have been the best college left tackle I've seen in the past decade.

These fine players came to Cincinnati and now their techniques are ruined. They are empty shells of their old selves. It's visible, palpable, and everyone can see it except Paul Alexander. The Piano Man has ruined the techniques of America's best linemen and Andy Dalton will someday pay the price for his ineptitude just like Carson Palmer did.

Get a new offensive line coach, one who is not enamored with the obsolete zone blocking techniques of the 1990s.

Keyword in all of your evaluations. Was. Till they became bungleized, go ahead and add ross as well.

(11-06-2017, 11:35 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: It's not the players.  Every man on the Cincinnati roster was a beast in college and highly sought after in the draft.  They were vetted, evaluated, worked out, poked, prodded, filmed, questioned, tested, Wonderlic-ed, and more.

Watch film on Russell Bodine at North Carolina.  He was a mauler.

Watch film on Cedric Ogbuehi at Texas A&M.  He was wicked good.

Watch film on Jake Fisher at Oregon.  He was one of the best.

Watch film on Andre Smith at Alabama.  He might have been the best college left tackle I've seen in the past decade.

These fine players came to Cincinnati and now their techniques are ruined.  They are empty shells of their old selves.  It's visible, palpable, and everyone can see it except Paul Alexander.  The Piano Man has ruined the techniques of America's best linemen and Andy Dalton will someday pay the price for his ineptitude just like Carson Palmer did.

Get a new offensive line coach, one who is not enamored with the obsolete zone blocking techniques of the 1990s.

I remember Willie Anderson putting out a tweet about Cedric Ogbuehi and telling people not to give up on him and that the kid had talent. He offered to come work with him and get him straightened out. 

Personally, I agree with you. The talent is there, the technique is all wrong. Munoz, Willie, hell even Joe Walters is hanging around doing things, let those guys go work with the young guys on the line and there would be improvement.

It would certainly be nice to see a different coach try to work with them before we completely give up on such high picks like Ced O and Fisher.

Manziel was a good QB in college...Akili Smith played great in college...Tom Brady was average in college...I was great in high school...

I don't understand the evaluations here...

(11-06-2017, 11:35 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote:
Watch film on Russell Bodine at North Carolina.  He was a mauler.

Watch film on Cedric Ogbuehi at Texas A&M.  He was wicked good.

Lol. Neither of these statements are even remotely close to true. 

(11-07-2017, 02:03 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Lol. Neither of these statements are even remotely close to true. 

Bodine was just impressive because his combine was great.

CO was questionable since he arrived in Cincinnati. I'm pretty sure we skipped over a few great picks for him.

(11-07-2017, 02:04 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Bodine was just impressive because his combine was great.

CO was questionable since he arrived in Cincinnati. I'm pretty sure we skipped over a few great picks for him.

Bodine is durable, weight room strong and tough. That's what he showed in college. It's what he shown here.

Ogbuehi is soft. He's passive. He's an athlete and he has the size. 

These were all obvious in college. But the NFL is so weird about this stuff. It way overrates certain traits. 

(11-07-2017, 02:10 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Bodine is durable, weight room strong and tough. That's what he showed in college. It's what he shown here.

Ogbuehi is soft. He's passive. He's an athlete and he has the size. 

These were all obvious in college. But the NFL is so weird about this stuff. It way overrates certain traits. 

Agreed. I don't think you can measure heart or guts.

I went after CO twice on Twitter after he let Dalton get blown up, then failed to pick his QB up. We would've ran laps when I played until we puked for gutless garbage like that. I just don't see anyone playing with any heart, and that goes to every level of the team. I think talent can't even be rated at this point because there is NO effort.

(11-07-2017, 01:59 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Manziel was a good QB in college...Akili Smith played great in college...Tom Brady was average in college...I was great in high school...

I don't understand the evaluations here...

Well...look at it like this.

Akili = great in college = Mike Brown + Shit develop + Dave Shula as a HC = Failure.

Manziel = great in college = the mistake by the lake + no developmental coaches + no stability at head coach = Failure.

Tom Brady = average in college = drafted by a well run organization + paired with the greatest head coaching mind of this generation = Hall of Fame. 

Take a great player and stick them in a shit situation and...they will flop.

Take an average talent and give them a genius coach and good developmental staff and you end up with a HoF guy.


Teams that succeed can usually trace that to a way of doing things.

Jacksonville was garbage...but they brought Coughlin back and let him kinda do his thing, and guess what, that team has passion and is one QB away from being an elite team.

Browns, always a revolving door, always new people, and guess what always a dumpster fire.

Here, Mike Brown, does it his way and keeps his buddies and family around. The team will surprise every once in awhile and then....bam...back to suck town.

(11-07-2017, 02:10 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Bodine is durable, weight room strong and tough. That's what he showed in college. It's what he shown here.

Ogbuehi is soft. He's passive. He's an athlete and he has the size. 

These were all obvious in college. But the NFL is so weird about this stuff. It way overrates certain traits. 

And from the mouth of Munoz and Willie Anderson, the kid can play LT in the NFL just needs work on his technique.

I trust the opinion of those two guys more than I trust the opinion of anyone on this board or on the Bengals coaching staff. 

He needs a new voice, and a new coach. We missed out when Mike Munchak was looking for a job, that guy could coach this line up.

(11-07-2017, 02:42 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: And from the mouth of Munoz and Willie Anderson, the kid can play LT in the NFL just needs work on his technique.

I trust the opinion of those two guys more than I trust the opinion of anyone on this board or on the Bengals coaching staff. 

He needs a new voice, and a new coach. We missed out when Mike Munchak was looking for a job, that guy could coach this line up.

Feel free too. Doesn't change that he's soft and passive. He doesn't use his hands well. 
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Matt Kalil never turned it around either. 

(11-06-2017, 11:35 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: It's not the players.  Every man on the Cincinnati roster was a beast in college and highly sought after in the draft.  They were vetted, evaluated, worked out, poked, prodded, filmed, questioned, tested, Wonderlic-ed, and more.

Watch film on Russell Bodine at North Carolina.  He was a mauler.

Watch film on Cedric Ogbuehi at Texas A&M.  He was wicked good.

Watch film on Jake Fisher at Oregon.  He was one of the best.

Watch film on Andre Smith at Alabama.  He might have been the best college left tackle I've seen in the past decade.

These fine players came to Cincinnati and now their techniques are ruined.  They are empty shells of their old selves.  It's visible, palpable, and everyone can see it except Paul Alexander.  The Piano Man has ruined the techniques of America's best linemen and Andy Dalton will someday pay the price for his ineptitude just like Carson Palmer did.

Get a new offensive line coach, one who is not enamored with the obsolete zone blocking techniques of the 1990s.

Its called being bungalized, Bengals have been doing it for years , they take a good player and tell him unlearn everything you have learned and relearn it our way, there on film saying "do it our way" . I agree on Pauly boy, however the real problem is we let two starters walk (Whit ,Zeitler). That comes from Marvin and Mike Brown, Beavis and Butthead sabotaged there own team. No effort to replace OGbuehi with a better option, heck even Eric Winston would have played better than our current tackles. Marvin has to go!!!

(11-07-2017, 02:42 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: And from the mouth of Munoz and Willie Anderson, the kid can play LT in the NFL just needs work on his technique.

I trust the opinion of those two guys more than I trust the opinion of anyone on this board or on the Bengals coaching staff. 

He needs a new voice, and a new coach. We missed out when Mike Munchak was looking for a job, that guy could coach this line up.

I love former greats but there’s a reason so many former players SUCK ASS at talent evaluation



The skill set of being a great player doesn’t transfer to be a great talent finder. It just doesn’t. Actually I’d bet statistically that former players grading talent for the same position they played are wrong MOST the time.

(11-07-2017, 02:42 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: And from the mouth of Munoz and Willie Anderson, the kid can play LT in the NFL just needs work on his technique.

I trust the opinion of those two guys more than I trust the opinion of anyone on this board or on the Bengals coaching staff. 

He needs a new voice, and a new coach. We missed out when Mike Munchak was looking for a job, that guy could coach this line up.

Well, all the evaluations of his play in college add up to what we are seeing right now. I won't argue with Willie and Munoz, but they're also one of the few that remain positive about the Bengals and their players. No one ever questioned the talent CO has, but right now, as stated, he lacks any sort of passion or technical skill. That's not just made up, but what is actual fact.

Quote:Weaknesses

Functional power and anchor are legitimate concerns. Technique flaws make pass protection harder than it has to be. Football leverage isn't as good as expected. Doesn't play with enough bend at impact. His punch in pass pro can be woefully mistimed and he plays with wide hands and some wasted motion in setup. Base tends to narrow when pass rush gets to his high side. Not a powerful tackle and won't generate much push as in-line blocker. Was one of the SEC leaders in sacks allowed in 2014. Tore his ACL in Aggies' bowl game, and won't be able to go through a full pre-draft workout for NFL personnel men.

Quote:Bottom Line

NFL evaluators are very worried about Ogbuehi's core strength and ability to anchor in pass protection, but some of his anchor issues could be improved with technique work -- especially where his hands are concerned. He should be a plus run blocker, especially on stretch plays, but needs to add strength and work on technique if he is to reach his play potential. Ogbuehi's bowl-game injury could hurt his draft standing, but his traits and potential might be able to keep him in the first round.

(11-07-2017, 02:42 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: And from the mouth of Munoz and Willie Anderson, the kid can play LT in the NFL just needs work on his technique.

I trust the opinion of those two guys more than I trust the opinion of anyone on this board or on the Bengals coaching staff. 

He needs a new voice, and a new coach. We missed out when Mike Munchak was looking for a job, that guy could coach this line up.

Yes they do. I mean what jack wagon would put a rookie at RT and TE respectively then expect them to learn another position at a much higher clip? Oh yeah, this coaching staff. They didn't do Jake or OG any favors with their development. 

The real problem is the same problems we've been harping about all last season to this point.

Marvin Lewis/Alexander and the O-line.

Acting like a player was good in college so they take no blame as how they perform as pro doesn't fly imo. Plenty of good college players fizzle out in the NFL.

(11-07-2017, 04:39 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Well, all the evaluations of his play in college add up to what we are seeing right now. I won't argue with Willie and Munoz, but they're also one of the few that remain positive about the Bengals and their players. No one ever questioned the talent CO has, but right now, as stated, he lacks any sort of passion or technical skill. That's not just made up, but what is actual fact.

Ogbuehi's hands are absolutely terrible, he's so incredibly late getting his hands up and on the defender (if at all).

What's the real problem? What's been the one constant in this whole fiasco.  Andy?  nope.  OLine?  nope.  Paul Alexander?  nope.  Marvin Lewis? nope.  You wanna know the REAL problem?  Mike F***ing Brown.  That's been the one constant this whole time. Ever since the early 90's.  I can't even be mad at Marvin like half you guys are.  Ya sure he has his faults, but so does the guy in New England, so did Vince Lombardi.  My point is, we could have Vince Lombardi here coaching the Bengals, but with Mike F***king Brown as the owner, we'll still be known as the Bungles.

(11-07-2017, 10:47 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: What's the real problem? What's been the one constant in this whole fiasco.  Andy?  nope.  OLine?  nope.  Paul Alexander?  nope.  Marvin Lewis? nope.  You wanna know the REAL problem?  Mike F***ing Brown.  That's been the one constant this whole time. Ever since the early 90's.  I can't even be mad at Marvin like half you guys are.  Ya sure he has his faults, but so does the guy in New England, so did Vince Lombardi.  My point is, we could have Vince Lombardi here coaching the Bengals, but with Mike F***king Brown as the owner, we'll still be known as the Bungles.

Marvin Lewis would be getting coffee for Belicheck and Lombardi.