Ced - 41.1
Vigil - 41.0
Bodine - 42.2

That means he's actually played worse than Ced in PFF's eyes.

But Hopkins is worse than them all at 39.9.

Discuss.

Interesting that Hopkins is lower than Ogbuehi, yet his positional ranking is better (bad, but still better). There must be some truly awful guard play out there, or there must be a lot of injured guards meaning there's not enough qualified players in the rankings or something.

OL rank, by position @PFF
Ogbuehi -17 (65th)
Fisher -14.3 (60th)
Bodine -13 (31st)
Hopkins -8.5 (45th)
Boling -5.2 (36th)#Bengals

— Lance McAlister (@LanceMcAlister) November 6, 2017

Boling is still what he always has been, a decent but meh starter. Everyone else is pretty much awful and shouldn't be starters on any team.

(11-09-2017, 11:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Interesting that Hopkins is lower than Ogbuehi, yet his positional ranking is better (bad, but still better). There must be some truly awful guard play out there, or there must be a lot of injured guards meaning there's not enough qualified players in the rankings or something.

OL rank, by position @PFF
Ogbuehi -17 (65th)
Fisher -14.3 (60th)
Bodine -13 (31st)
Hopkins -8.5 (45th)
Boling -5.2 (36th)#Bengals

— Lance McAlister (@LanceMcAlister) November 6, 2017

Boling is still what he always has been, a decent but meh starter. Everyone else is pretty much awful and shouldn't be starters on any team.

What I gather from that is that 4 guys at lease merit being NFL starters, albeit not great ones, and Ogbuehi rates as the 4th best backup OT in the league.

(11-09-2017, 10:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ced - 41.1
Vigil - 41.0
Bodine - 42.2

That means he's actually played worse than Ced in PFF's eyes.

But Hopkins is worse than them all at 39.9.

Discuss.

Is this a projection of Vigil's grade at LT?

Ced, Bodine, and Fisher are the worst by far from what I have witnessed.

(11-09-2017, 11:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What I gather from that is that 4 guys at lease merit being NFL starters, albeit not great ones, and Ogbuehi rates as the 4th best backup OT in the league.

4 of them rank out as poor. Really bad.

I mean they are among the worst starters in the league at their positions.

(11-10-2017, 12:51 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: 4 of them rank out as poor. Really bad.

I mean they are among the worst starters in the league at their positions.

Agreed, why I said that 4 of them rate to be starters, albeit not great ones. 

They do rank among the worst, save for Boling. (he's at least in the top half of his position group 30/64)  The other 3 barely merit starter status, and Ogbuehi is the worst Tackle in the league. 

Save for Ogbuehi, any of these guys could be hidden well, on most offensive lines.  However, when you have one guy that is average, 3 guys that barely rate as starters, and one guy that is still "developmental" as your starting 5, nothing good can happen.

In the preseason "surprise cuts" threads my pick was Vigil. He just looked the worst of all our LBs in PS.

My hope is that we don't do the popular suggestion and spend every draft pick on Oline. I hope we take a good look at the center of our D. (DT, ILB, S)

vigil does look shitty.

I wonder if he could block worse!?

(11-09-2017, 10:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ced - 41.1
Vigil - 41.0
Bodine - 42.2

That means he's actually played worse than Ced in PFF's eyes.

But Hopkins is worse than them all at 39.9.

Discuss.

Umm i dont think any of the guys were calling our "starters" on the offensive line would get picked up by another team if we released them. These guys barely qualify for backup quality, but yet we keep sending them out there week after week.

(11-10-2017, 03:38 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Umm i dont think any of the guys were calling our "starters" on the offensive line would get picked up by another team if we released them. These guys barely qualify for backup quality, but yet we keep sending them out there week after week.

Our OL is like pawns in a chess game. 

(11-09-2017, 10:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ced - 41.1
Vigil - 41.0
Bodine - 42.2

That means he's actually played worse than Ced in PFF's eyes.

But Hopkins is worse than them all at 39.9.

Discuss.

Vigil's OK, surprised he scores that low.

He's the sort of player this coaching staff probably love.   Super steady, does not miss games/practice, keeps his mouth shut, plays in the scheme probably never forgets his Mum's birthday...

For me he could turn into the linebacking equivalent of Peko.  Lots of 'production' as in if you went on NFL.com you'll probably see lots of games started, lots of tackles/assists..but most of those tackles are with his back to the LoS and too far downfield.

Not everyone can be an impact player I guess but he's basically the young Vinny Rey at this point - was hoping he might offer more in coverage.

(11-10-2017, 01:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: In the preseason "surprise cuts" threads my pick was Vigil. He just looked the worst of all our LBs in PS.

My hope is that we don't do the popular suggestion and spend every draft pick on Oline. I hope we take a good look at the center of our D. (DT, ILB, S)

We definitely need to sign atleast 1 free agent lineman for experience.

Boling should be the 3rd or more reasonably 4th best lineman on a good line.

I think we need to draft atleast 1 LB. With Minter a free agent, and Vigil not performing, and Burfict a hit away from a long suspension...

(11-10-2017, 10:21 AM)sonofstat Wrote: Vigil's OK, surprised he scores that low.

He's the sort of player this coaching staff probably love.   Super steady, does not miss games/practice, keeps his mouth shut, plays in the scheme probably never forgets his Mum's birthday...

For me he could turn into the linebacking equivalent of Peko.  Lots of 'production' as in if you went on NFL.com you'll probably see lots of games started, lots of tackles/assists..but most of those tackles are with his back to the LoS and too far downfield.

Not everyone can be an impact player I guess but he's basically the young Vinny Rey at this point - was hoping he might offer more in coverage.

For him to grade that low...he's making major mistakes. 

(11-10-2017, 01:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: In the preseason "surprise cuts" threads my pick was Vigil. He just looked the worst of all our LBs in PS.

My hope is that we don't do the popular suggestion and spend every draft pick on Oline. I hope we take a good look at the center of our D. (DT, ILB, S)

Glad you mention Safety here. 

Probably zero chance it will get a look in with the perceived/actual gaps elsewhere in the squad but it would be great to have more playmaking ability at Safety. 

Williams and Iloka are basically the same player..and for in the box, run defense safeties I don't actually know if they make that more impact on our run defense up the middle then a 'coverage' center fielder type.

I guess a lot of this comes down to scheme and how the FO/Coaches want to build the squad.  Perimeter positions like CB, WR, OT, DE seem to get priority in both draft and FA...on other positions we'll settle for steady eddies, lower draft picks - FS/SS, OG, DT, LB.

(11-10-2017, 10:30 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: For him to grade that low...he's making major mistakes. 

well I've watched all the games and I honestly cannot remember one... though depends what you view as major I guess  - some coverage mistakes and missed tackles sure. 

If he is genuinely making major mistakes then I would want him replaced. 

In our 4-3 scheme its only really Burfict who's allowed to go around raising merry hell....Minter, Rey, Vigil are basically all the same and they'll probably try and mould Evans the same way. 

As a long as they're steady eddies who are available, know the scheme, sure tacklers and cap friendly they'll get playing time.

The only thing Paulie G/Marv don't want them to do is major mistakes - the obvious trade off for this is that they'll go their whole Bengal careers without you really remembering one game of theirs !!

(11-10-2017, 08:46 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Our OL is like pawns in a chess game. 

Disagree. Pawns can't move backward but all our OL does is move backwards!

(11-10-2017, 01:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: In the preseason "surprise cuts" threads my pick was Vigil. He just looked the worst of all our LBs in PS.

My hope is that we don't do the popular suggestion and spend every draft pick on Oline. I hope we take a good look at the center of our D. (DT, ILB, S)

If the Bengals were willing to cut Derron Smith without really giving him a chance, I'd be surprised to see a safety taken early...unless there is a regime change.
This current regime seems pretty hellbent on Iloka and Williams as the starters.

(11-10-2017, 10:22 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We definitely need to sign atleast 1 free agent lineman for experience.

Boling should be the 3rd or more reasonably 4th best lineman on a good line.

I think we need to draft atleast 1 LB. With Minter a free agent, and Vigil not performing, and Burfict a hit away from a long suspension...

We'll need at least 2 O-linemen in free agency to have any chance of turning this thing around. You're not gonna be able to get 3 starters from the draft and still be able to address other weaknesses.