(11-09-2017, 06:11 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why would the 11th best guard in pro football sign for only 5.5 million? I think you are severely underestimating the price tag. Didn't Zeitler just get a huge contract?

I am guessing closer to 28 million for 3 years is what it takes to sign him. He is rated as high as Zeitler I do believe.

I would love for us to sign him, but he will not be at the bargain price you suggested in my opinion

I think Pistons was joking since that was the supposed amount Cincy offered Zeitler.

(11-09-2017, 06:14 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I think Pistons was joking since that was the supposed amount Cincy offered Zeitler.

I had a close friend who works with the Bengals tell me Bengals offered Zeitler 9.2 million (not close to 5.5 million) a year for 4 years, but contract did not have the guaranteed pay outs he wanted and Bengals would not budge on the guarantees.

Who is source for $5.5 million offer?

(11-09-2017, 06:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I had a close friend who works with the Bengals tell me Bengals offered Zeitler 9.2 million (not close to 5.5 million) a year for 4 years, but contract did not have the guaranteed pay outs he wanted and Bengals would not budge on the guarantees.

Who is source for $5.5 million offer?

Dave Lapham, I think?

(11-06-2017, 01:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: Just being realistic, unless Og or Fisher shows massive improvement, we're looking at 2 T's, a C, and a G to fix the line next year.  I don't see how we can get 1 guy in FA and roll into the draft needing the other 3.  We have to get at least 2, hopefully 3 before the draft.

Agreed, 

We'll have to have at least to FA's to have any hope of fixing the Oline. Getting more than one starter out of the draft is pushing it, two is absolute tops.

(11-06-2017, 03:46 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Mike brown wont pay a guard. He will have to stwp out if his comfort zone to do th is and hes an old cheap piece of crap. Dont count on it.

Agreed but hopefully he'll come to his senses by the time this train wreck of a season is over.

Much rather have Nelson or Hernandez in the draft. Norwell is good not great. Nelson and Hernandez are regarded as some of the best guards to come out in the last 10 years

Would like to see the Bengals make some sort of move like this.

To make it look like the FO cared a little anyway.

(11-09-2017, 06:11 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why would the 11th best guard in pro football sign for only 5.5 million? I think you are severely underestimating the price tag. Didn't Zeitler just get a huge contract?

I am guessing closer to 28 million for 3 years is what it takes to sign him. He is rated as high as Zeitler I do believe.

I would love for us to sign him, but he will not be at the bargain price you suggested in my opinion

Yea the top 19 paid guards in the NFL make $7+ mill a year. Top 14 paid guards make $8+ mill a year.
Mike Brown just needs to be willing to pay an interior lineman that much money or he's going to forever have to cycle through draft picks or mediocre veterans.
And it doesn't help that the OT FA class will be terrible this year, forcing the Bengals to have to address OT in the draft to find anyone solid or better.
But IMO they need to address C or RG in FA to open up the draft a bit (assuming they care to be competitive next year).

(11-10-2017, 12:01 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea the top 19 paid guards in the NFL make $7+ mill a year. Top 14 paid guards make $8+ mill a year.
Mike Brown just needs to be willing to pay an interior lineman that much money or he's going to forever have to cycle through draft picks or mediocre veterans.
And it doesn't help that the OT FA class will be terrible this year, forcing the Bengals to have to address OT in the draft to find anyone solid or better.
But IMO they need to address C or RG in FA to open up the draft a bit (assuming they care to be competitive next year).

Which is a major theme. Salaries rise in the NFL faster than the Bengals are willing to value a position.

The cap rises by $10 million a year.

This notion that you can't sign free agents IF you have guys hitting free agency just isn't realistic.

(11-10-2017, 12:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Which is a major theme. Salaries rise in the NFL faster than the Bengals are willing to value a position.

The cap rises by $10 million a year.

This notion that you can't sign free agents IF you have guys hitting free agency just isn't realistic.

And a big part of the problem is the way the Bengals handle cap management.
They value full contracts, very unwilling to cut bait before contracts are expired unless there is very little to no dead cap or being unable/unwilling to rework contracts for the betterment of the team. They also overpay for mediocre talent, especially players who were drafted by the Bengals. Last, they care too much about saving funds for future contracts 2-3 years down the road rather than trying to do everything to win-now once they become perennial playoff contenders.

(11-10-2017, 12:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And a big part of the problem is the way the Bengals handle cap management.
They value full contracts, very unwilling to cut bait before contracts are expired unless there is very little to no dead cap or being unable/unwilling to rework contracts for the betterment of the team. They also overpay for mediocre talent, especially players who were drafted by the Bengals. Last, they care too much about saving funds for future contracts 2-3 years down the road rather than trying to do everything to win-now once they become perennial playoff contenders.

I honestly think that the Bengals view the NFL salary cap as a suggestion. From articles I've read over the years...Mike Brown views himself in a small market and has imposed spending constraints against the team due to this.

With revenue sharing, I would think that they'd be able to spend at the cap...but when you do a big signing bonus that money goes out upfront...and I'm sure this factors in to. There is a salary cap...but there is also how much actual cash you spend in any 1 year.

The new slotted draft salaries make it more tempting to be cheap as you can just let guys go and then pay a 4th Round Comp pick peanuts to play. It hurts the on field product...but after 49 years we've won a playoff game in 3 years...so is going cheap really costing us being competitive? We weren't really competitive anyways.

(11-06-2017, 11:31 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Norwell plays for the Panthers. He was an undrafted player from Ohio State. He grades out on PFF as the #11 Guard in football.

He's from...Cincinnatti, Ohio.

Currently he's making $2.75 million.

Then draft a Center and Tackle and the line is looking much better.

That is what i am talkin about. We let Marv and PA go and do this we will be right back into the Playoff mix.

Pretty damn simple stuff honestly.

(11-10-2017, 02:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is what i am talkin about. We let Marv and PA go and do this we will be right back into the Playoff mix.

Pretty damn simple stuff honestly.

It really is simple and we have the cap space to do it.

We can double up on OT with lineman with those extra picks we got in the McCarron trade

(11-10-2017, 09:19 PM)bonesaw Wrote: We can double up on OT with lineman with those extra picks we got in the McCarron trade

Yeah...that trade for a 2nd and 3rd was one surefire way to address the line. So much for that.

That failed trade could set us back 2-3 years.

(11-06-2017, 01:18 PM)grampahol Wrote: If the Bengals make a trade for offensive line it'll be a Washington Generals-esque trade for someone guaranteed to be almost good enough, but not quite good enough..
I'm convinced that the team ownership sold their souls to be one of the Washington Generals of the league and lousy by design. Just good enough to sell tickets, but never good enough to win in the post season. 
After all, Mikey stands on principals.. He sold his principles long ago. Somewhere in the bowels of PBS in a room full of the corpses of long dead elementary school principals. He stands on principals.  

They will most likely (just trying to be realistic, here) try to build through the draft instead.  If you look in to the draft this early, they need to go likely with an OT in Rd 1, double-down with another OT in one of the next three rounds (based on ranking) and also draft a Center and Guard very early.  Taking any other position group would be a waste, just like the WR and RB in the first two rounds this past year.  

The biggest single improvement that can be made is to the coaching staff across the board.  There needs to be a coach that plays their best talent in a logical fashion, has creativity, discipline, and aggression.

If they simply move up Paulie G from DC, unless Hue is brought on as OC and Alexander is fired, there will be no change in the performance of this team.  

Whit is a Pro Bowl LT & was THE team leader.

This team lost a lot more than an O Linemen when Whit left.

He loved this team and this city.........and the Bungles let him walk

Hope the Brown family enjoys that extra 20 mil or so in their pockets

Paul Brown would have anted up........first pick in franchise history was a C

(11-11-2017, 07:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: They will most likely (just trying to be realistic, here) try to build through the draft instead.  If you look in to the draft this early, they need to go likely with an OT in Rd 1, double-down with another OT in one of the next three rounds (based on ranking) and also draft a Center and Guard very early.  Taking any other position group would be a waste, just like the WR and RB in the first two rounds this past year.  

The biggest single improvement that can be made is to the coaching staff across the board.  There needs to be a coach that plays their best talent in a logical fashion, has creativity, discipline, and aggression.

If they simply move up Paulie G from DC, unless Hue is brought on as OC and Alexander is fired, there will be no change in the performance of this team.  

No ot worth a first round pick. Trade down and get a cream of the crop elite guard(will hernandez) and a elite center(Billy price) in the second. Gotta wait on ot.

(11-10-2017, 12:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Which is a major theme. Salaries rise in the NFL faster than the Bengals are willing to value a position.

The cap rises by $10 million a year.

This notion that you can't sign free agents IF you have guys hitting free agency just isn't realistic.

Typically, the cap rises about that amount.  This year will be interesting to see if it indeed goes up, holds steady, or even retracts a bit.  With the steady drop in TV ratings, loss of advertisers, and rumors of ESPN not renewing their contract with the NFL, certainly that will have an impact on the overall revenue pool.

As far as how that would affect the Bengals?  If the revenue pool drops, each team's share would certainly drop.  I really can't see Scrooge Mc Brown ever coming out of his own pocket to make up the difference, especially for players on the FA market.

(11-06-2017, 12:50 PM)Whatever Wrote: I really think they need to get a quality T via FA or trade.  As we've seen, with spread offenses taking over college football, plug and play rookie T's are extremely hard to come by.  

Any Oline help is warranted but first Alexander needs fired before any improvement can be achieved


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(11-12-2017, 06:47 AM)Jpoore Wrote: No ot worth a first round pick. Trade down and get a cream of the crop elite guard(will hernandez) and a elite center(Billy price) in the second. Gotta wait on ot.

We said the same thing last year and Cam Robinson completely shut our "elite" DE down and the Broncos were really happy with Bolles before the injury.  

I would bet that there is top tier talent, but please, stop taking them from spread offenses.  It is already a crap shoot in some ways, but you really limit your chances when you have to teach them an entire new way of playing.