(08-18-2015, 05:33 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: LOL cause most QBs waive off plays....

Maybe a handful of guysn at most are afforded that opportunity.

There are several times in games that quarterback are given more than one play to choose from at the line of scrimmage, so why would be such a far reach to say that a quarterback would wave off a play given to him from the sidelines?

It wasn't an audible.

He did not want THAT play or Formation.

An audible is called based on your package at the line.
Not even all QBs get the green light to audible at will.

He wanted a new look sent in.
You are confusing an audible with QB shutting down a play call.

(08-18-2015, 05:39 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: It wasn't an audible.

He did not want THAT play or Formation.

An audible is called based on your package at the line.
Not even all QBs get the green light to audible at will.

He wanted a new look sent in.
You are confusing an audible with QB shutting down a play call.

No I'm making the point in both instances the QB is the one making the decision. 

(08-18-2015, 05:24 PM)Lewdog Wrote: It took to just now for Andy to wave off plays?  That's ridiculous.  Watch Peyton Manning, he tells the coach to change the play all the time.  Maybe this will be a graduation for Dalton, and he can start seeing tendencies by the defense and start calling successful plays.

You're confusing calling an audible with waiving off a set or formation 

(08-18-2015, 05:43 PM)Lewdog Wrote: No I'm making the point in both instances the QB is the one making the decision. 

He wasn't calling an audible (same set, predetermined group of plays), he was calling for a new play (different set, different audibles).

(08-18-2015, 02:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: Maybe he should have done that vs Indy.

Or his first playoff game against Houston?  A "No, we're not running another Gresham drop, gimme somethin' else!" would have been nice...

(08-18-2015, 03:16 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: WHat other options???????????????????????

Sorry, that was sarcasm.  I knew there were no other options. 

(08-18-2015, 04:20 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: This sounds ridiculous for the NFL level but if they can get Andy to just not shoot the team in the foot, then the Bengals can be successful. There....I said it.

Let's be fair about this.  What game has Andy absolutely, single-handedly, lost the Bengals a game?  When he has had CLOSE to his normal starting roster, where has he shot the team in the foot?  The entire team looked flaccid that primetime game against the Browns, but I can't think of too many games where Andy has been the cause of the team's losses.   

I wonder if he's allowed to waive himself off (the field)?

(08-18-2015, 11:09 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Let's be fair about this.  What game has Andy absolutely, single-handedly, lost the Bengals a game?  When he has had CLOSE to his normal starting roster, where has he shot the team in the foot?  The entire team looked flaccid that primetime game against the Browns, but I can't think of too many games where Andy has been the cause of the team's losses.   

I'm not sure you're being fair, when you follow that up with a question that's basically impossible to prove.

Nearly anything Dalton does can and does get blamed on others (injuries, WR drops, WR running wrong routes, play-calling, HC, OC, etc.). 

For the record, I'm neither a Dalton hater or a Dalton homer.  Being a Bengals fan, I'd like to see anyone wearing the stripes to do well. 

(08-18-2015, 05:24 PM)Lewdog Wrote: It took to just now for Andy to wave off plays?  That's ridiculous.  Watch Peyton Manning, he tells the coach to change the play all the time.  Maybe this will be a graduation for Dalton, and he can start seeing tendencies by the defense and start calling successful plays.

I'm of the belief that Dalton was beginning to do this in the Gruden offense year 3, but with the changeup took a step back in year 4 under Hue's offense.

I'm hoping that this year he will have a better understanding of the offense and can change the plays how he sees useful, and in turn have a year similar to his 3rd year under Gruden.

Our change in coordinators did more damage to our team last year than I think we realize.

(08-18-2015, 11:09 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Let's be fair about this.  What game has Andy absolutely, single-handedly, lost the Bengals a game?  When he has had CLOSE to his normal starting roster, where has he shot the team in the foot?  The entire team looked flaccid that primetime game against the Browns, but I can't think of too many games where Andy has been the cause of the team's losses.   

The ONE instance I think of is the Thursday night Halloween debacle against the Dolphins. That was the only time I truly thought Dalton lost us the game all on his own (only one that sticks out in memory anyways)

(08-18-2015, 11:25 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I'm not sure you're being fair, when you follow that up with a question that's basically impossible to prove.

Nearly anything Dalton does can and does get blamed on others (injuries, WR drops, WR running wrong routes, play-calling, HC, OC, etc.). 

For the record, I'm neither a Dalton hater or a Dalton homer.  Being a Bengals fan, I'd like to see anyone wearing the stripes to do well. 

That's how a lot of us are, but everyone has at least a little bit of bias for different guys it seems.

Nearly everything Dalton does on the field DOES get blamed on others by certain people (unless it's a good play). If he throws a duck that Sanu happens to haul in, you don't hear a thing from the Andy defenders. If he throws a duck and Sanu can't pull it down, then the excuses fly. Same goes for the other side of things. If a ball hits A.J. in the hands and he just flat out drops it, you'll still see a couple guys give a "GOOD JOB ANDY YOU SUCK!".

Both sides are full of dopey individuals, but depending on who you argue with more will decide whether they call you a "homer" or "hater". I strongly encourage you to join the dark side of the force though, it's much more entertaining. If you argue with Utts and company, all they'll give you is a "Haha, Andy sucks you nerd" and there isn't much excitement there. The guys that obsess over Andy are a lot more fun and they'll spend hours spinning your head off with excuses, and quite frankly, it's hilarious to watch how much they're in love with the guy.

(08-18-2015, 11:25 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I'm not sure you're being fair, when you follow that up with a question that's basically impossible to prove.

Nearly anything Dalton does can and does get blamed on others (injuries, WR drops, WR running wrong routes, play-calling, HC, OC, etc.). 

For the record, I'm neither a Dalton hater or a Dalton homer.  Being a Bengals fan, I'd like to see anyone wearing the stripes to do well. 

I thought it would be interesting for people to try and pull a game out of memory where it was clearly Dalton that was the reason for the loss.  It is intended for all those that think the Bengals would never lose if Dalton would just stop making mistakes.

(08-19-2015, 02:44 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: The ONE instance I think of is the Thursday night Halloween debacle against the Dolphins. That was the only time I truly thought Dalton lost us the game all on his own (only one that sticks out in memory anyways)

It wasn't his best outing, but he did have them in place to win the game and Marv decided a punt was a better play than attempt a long FG. 

(08-19-2015, 08:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I thought it would be interesting for people to try and pull a game out of memory where it was clearly Dalton that was the reason for the loss.  It is intended for all those that think the Bengals would never lose if Dalton would just stop making mistakes.

Just like you did here....

(08-19-2015, 08:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: It wasn't his best outing, but he did have them in place to win the game and Marv decided a punt was a better play than attempt a long FG. 

....there can always be SOMETHING to put on somebody other than Andy. Like jakefromstatefarm said, your question isn't really fair, because you're just going to have an excuse for every single game that anyone mentions where Andy played poorly. I'm not even saying you'd be wrong, because I could find someone other than Andy screwing up in each game too. BUT, that's not really a fair statement to make unless you mention that you could do the same thing for any other team and any other QB. You can always find at least one other person to blame no matter what. It's a team sport and a team game, if you look closely enough, you can always find more than 1 guy doing something wrong. Some just do more wrong than others, hence the scrutiny of certain players.

(08-19-2015, 02:44 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: The ONE instance I think of is the Thursday night Halloween debacle against the Dolphins. That was the only time I truly thought Dalton lost us the game all on his own (only one that sticks out in memory anyways)

I blame that more of the refs honestly. Dalton didn't have the greatest game, but at least one of the INTs shouldn't have happened (when Sanu was helmet to helmet tackled, and the ball came out of his hands). Then on top of that a TD to Marvin Jones was taken away because of a ticky tack holding penalty on Gresham.

(08-19-2015, 08:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I thought it would be interesting for people to try and pull a game out of memory where it was clearly Dalton that was the reason for the loss.  It is intended for all those that think the Bengals would never lose if Dalton would just stop making mistakes.

I understand, but I'm just saying that even if such a game or games were listed, there are those that would excuse Dalton's performance by blaming it on something or someone else. 

Just like with many things in life, there are those that have a bias one way or the other.  They look for things that support their opinion, and either ignore or dismiss things that don't.  

(08-19-2015, 08:37 AM)djs7685 Wrote: That's how a lot of us are, but everyone has at least a little bit of bias for different guys it seems.

Nearly everything Dalton does on the field DOES get blamed on others by certain people (unless it's a good play). If he throws a duck that Sanu happens to haul in, you don't hear a thing from the Andy defenders. If he throws a duck and Sanu can't pull it down, then the excuses fly. Same goes for the other side of things. If a ball hits A.J. in the hands and he just flat out drops it, you'll still see a couple guys give a "GOOD JOB ANDY YOU SUCK!".

Both sides are full of dopey individuals, but depending on who you argue with more will decide whether they call you a "homer" or "hater". I strongly encourage you to join the dark side of the force though, it's much more entertaining. If you argue with Utts and company, all they'll give you is a "Haha, Andy sucks you nerd" and there isn't much excitement there. The guys that obsess over Andy are a lot more fun and they'll spend hours spinning your head off with excuses, and quite frankly, it's hilarious to watch how much they're in love with the guy.

I personally don't think Andy is an elite QB, but I don't think he's complete garbage either. 

He's an above average QB at his best and a pretty bad one at his worst. 

That being said, I'll reiterate that I hope he gets better and does well.  I'm not too worried about whatever label comes with me expressing my opinions on him.  

(08-19-2015, 09:21 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I blame that more of the refs honestly. Dalton didn't have the greatest game, but at least one of the INTs shouldn't have happened (when Sanu was helmet to helmet tackled, and the ball came out of his hands). Then on top of that a TD to Marvin Jones was taken away because of a ticky tack holding penalty on Gresham.

I forgot about those plays. At the same time, his pick 6 to Grimes really brought the Dolphins back in a game where we had no problem running all over them.

It wasn't Daltons fault Cameron Wake mauled him to end the game too, but since he got sacked its easy to point the blame at Dalton.

I still think that was his worst game (when it comes to giving the team the game)...

I suppose Chargers playoffs could come a close second, but the defense played a role in that one.