(11-12-2017, 07:38 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: On 44 attempts at just 6 yards attempt. For passing but nice cherry picking stats like you do. Honestly I don't see how anyone could watch this game and think this Defense doesn't have what it takes to win. However I will say Guenther is by far the worst coach on our staff how can you not play to your Defenses strength on a consistent basis. There is absolutely no excuse why we're not a top 5 unit Guenther should be ashamed of himself.

So posting the exact game stats for passing and rushing is 'cherry picking'.

Mariota had so many completions to wide open receivers. To say our passing defense is good...just isn't realistic.

(11-12-2017, 07:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So posting the exact game stats for passing and rushing is 'cherry picking'.

Mariota had so many completions to wide open receivers. To say our passing defense is good...just isn't realistic.

Completing 56% is good to you? 6 yards per attempt is good to you?  He threw the Ball 44 freaking times of course you are going to accumulate yards.

I give pretty much the entire defense a partial pass. Because our running game and line been so awful this year. We have many 3 and outs. or turnovers. So they get tired by being out on the field a ridiculous amount of plays not to mention our best defensive player has missed 3.5 games.

A good defense doesn't allow them to drive down the field at the end for the game winning score.

(11-14-2017, 02:03 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: A good defense doesn't allow them to drive down the field at the end for the game winning score.

They were exhausted without their best player. That 1 play TD did them no favors

(11-14-2017, 02:06 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: They were exhausted without there best player. That 1 play TD did them no favors

So giving up a game winning score isn't bad if Burfict is out and they're tired? Got it.

Part of the reason they were tired is they give up a lot of 3rd down conversions. They had the Titans backed up to 2nd and 24 early in the game and the Titans ended up getting a 1st down.

The offense is bad...but the defense definitely isn't championship caliber either.

(11-14-2017, 02:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So giving up a game winning score isn't bad if Burfict is out and they're tired? Got it.

Part of the reason they were tired is they give up a lot of 3rd down conversions. They had the Titans backed up to 2nd and 24 early in the game and the Titans ended up getting a 1st down.

The offense is bad...but the defense definitely isn't championship caliber either.

Stupid undisciplined penalties that I blame on coaching it's obvious Marvin has lost this team

(11-14-2017, 02:20 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Stupid undisciplined penalties that I blame on coaching it's obvious Marvin has lost this team

So...you blame Marvin for Burfict being an idiot?

Burfict and Jones need waived or traded. Bottom line. They must go if we ever want to compete.

(11-14-2017, 02:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So giving up a game winning score isn't bad if Burfict is out and they're tired? Got it.

Part of the reason they were tired is they give up a lot of 3rd down conversions. They had the Titans backed up to 2nd and 24 early in the game and the Titans ended up getting a 1st down.

The offense is bad...but the defense definitely isn't championship caliber either.

The defense is not what ails us buddy ! Our they championship caliber ? There's no way we can find out under these circumstances.

We're dead last in the NFL in rushing, 70 yards per game ! That's an epically bad number   We're dead last in the NFL in total offense at 270 yards per game ! The winless Browns are 23rd in total offense at 313 yards per game ! Eye opener huh ?

We're 31st in the NFL in time of possession at 26:52, over the last 3 games we're averaging 22:08. Again epically bad !

Has the defense been a lights out 85 Bears unit ? Hell no ! They've had their struggles but under the circumstances you can't hate on the D. They're playing a game and a half every game, that wears on you.

(11-14-2017, 02:06 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: That 1 play TD did them no favors

What? Seriously? The offense does its job (finally) in getting the go ahead score and it's the offense's fault the defense couldn't do its job? Give me a break. 

The Bengals D has given up 107 points in the 1st and 2nd quarters - 75 in the 3rd and 4th. Evidently, they're more tired in the 1st half. 

(11-14-2017, 02:53 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The defense is not what ails us buddy ! Our they championship caliber ? There's no way we can find out under these circumstances.

We're dead last in the NFL in rushing, 70 yards per game ! That's an epically bad number   We're dead last in the NFL in total offense at 270 yards per game ! The winless Browns are 23rd in total offense at 313 yards per game ! Eye opener huh ?

We're 31st in the NFL in time of possession at 26:52, over the last 3 games we're averaging 22:08. Again epically bad !

Has the defense been a lights out 85 Bears unit ? Hell no ! They've had their struggles but under the circumstances you can't hate on the D. They're playing a game and a half every game, that wears on you.

While I don't think our defense is as hopeless as say our offensive line and I fully understand and sympathize that they don't get as much rest as they should due to offensive ineptitude, the fact remains that our defense just hasn't been playing well the last few weeks. I think it's symptomatic of Merv having lost the whole team, but still ...

(11-14-2017, 02:53 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The defense is not what ails us buddy ! Our they championship caliber ? There's no way we can find out under these circumstances.

We're dead last in the NFL in rushing, 70 yards per game ! That's an epically bad number   We're dead last in the NFL in total offense at 270 yards per game ! The winless Browns are 23rd in total offense at 313 yards per game ! Eye opener huh ?

We're 31st in the NFL in time of possession at 26:52, over the last 3 games we're averaging 22:08. Again epically bad !

Has the defense been a lights out 85 Bears unit ? Hell no ! They've had their struggles but under the circumstances you can't hate on the D. They're playing a game and a half every game, that wears on you.

I agree. This is a good, not great, defense...and there are definitely times they are on the field way too long. A big part of it, as has been pointed out, is the offense not doing their job. However, there are also times when the D can't get of the field because of their own lack of execution and that can be frustrating to watch.

Overall though, I would say they've been pretty good and their issues pale in comparison to the offense.

(11-14-2017, 03:10 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I agree. This is a good, not great, defense...and there are definitely times they are on the field way too long. A big part of it, as has been pointed out, is the offense not doing their job. However, there are also times when the D can't get of the field because of their own lack of execution and that can be frustrating to watch.

Overall though, I would say they've been pretty good and their issues pale in comparison to the offense.

I agree with all of this. I think a major issue is the soft zone coverage.

They just aren't good at getting 3rd down stops.

In the 1st half against the Titans we had them at 2nd and 24 and they eventually converted it. Great defenses don't allow this.

The offense is a major issue. The defense is a minor issue...but still an issue.

(11-14-2017, 06:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I agree with all of this. I think a major issue is the soft zone coverage.

They just aren't good at getting 3rd down stops.

In the 1st half against the Titans we had them at 2nd and 24 and they eventually converted it. Great defenses don't allow this.

The offense is a major issue. The defense is a minor issue...but still an issue.

Agreed, and they REALLY let Jacksonville take it to them in the first half of that game.  They weren't tired yet at that point, plus the offense mounted a scoring drive in that half.

(11-14-2017, 06:13 PM)Wyche Wrote: Agreed, and they REALLY let Jacksonville take it to them in the first half of that game.  They weren't tired yet at that point, plus the offense mounted a scoring drive in that half.

This reminds me of the old argument that turnovers caused our defense to collapse in the playoffs...particularly the Chargers game. Then we have multiple turnovers in the Steelers game and the D still has a great game (last drive meltdown aside).

Sometimes we just need to hold each side accountable for their own play. If we want to play that game though, I could easily say the defense not being able to get off the field is killing us in time of possession and hurting the offense. They're also 28th in forced turnovers, which also gives the offense less chances.

The defense was sloppy and the D hasn't been at it's best the last couple weeks. But those 3rd down penalties killed them. Shaw struggled, and they just couldn't get off the field.

Guenther should be under the microscope, but the talent is there. They still (after all these years) lack discipline and late game poise. If I was an OC I'd just stay in 2min offense. They can't stop it at the end of either half. That I blame on Guenther (and Zimmer really).

(11-14-2017, 10:20 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This reminds me of the old argument that turnovers caused our defense to collapse in the playoffs...particularly the Chargers game. Then we have multiple turnovers in the Steelers game and the D still has a great game (last drive meltdown aside).

Sometimes we just need to hold each side accountable for their own play. If we want to play that game though, I could easily say the defense not being able to get off the field is killing us in time of possession and hurting the offense. They're also 28th in forced turnovers, which also gives the offense less chances.

Oh I agree totally it's a double edged sword. And a ton of things factor in, both they both play into one another in the end.

Viewing from the total picture though I feel the offense is an absolute train wreck and the defense is a multi car pile up.

(11-14-2017, 10:20 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This reminds me of the old argument that turnovers caused our defense to collapse in the playoffs...particularly the Chargers game. Then we have multiple turnovers in the Steelers game and the D still has a great game (last drive meltdown aside).

Sometimes we just need to hold each side accountable for their own play. If we want to play that game though, I could easily say the defense not being able to get off the field is killing us in time of possession and hurting the offense. They're also 28th in forced turnovers, which also gives the offense less chances.

Yeah the weak zone has to go. We've been doing it for years here and if the pass rush doesn't get there...it's almost a guaranteed completion.

With all the 1st Round picks at CB we should be able to play man coverage.

(11-14-2017, 10:20 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This reminds me of the old argument that turnovers caused our defense to collapse in the playoffs...particularly the Chargers game. Then we have multiple turnovers in the Steelers game and the D still has a great game (last drive meltdown aside).

Sometimes we just need to hold each side accountable for their own play. If we want to play that game though, I could easily say the defense not being able to get off the field is killing us in time of possession and hurting the offense. They're also 28th in forced turnovers, which also gives the offense less chances.

This year, in particular, it's literally coming from all angles.....special teams has shit the bed on numerous occasions as well.