This defense of Marvin Lewis from Willie Anderson got me thinking. What if there are no serious changes? What if this winds up being 2010 all over again? Back then, Marvin went into the season as a supposed "lame duck". He responded by losing 10 straight on the way to a 4-12 season. Of course, we all know what happened afterward:



The only change made after that debacle was Bratkowski getting fired in way late January, after all the good candidates were taken. We did get lucky with Jay Gruden, but no other teams were sniffing him as an O coordinator candidate. So one change - a new OC - after a massively disappointing season (based on league-wide expectations) and 10 straight L's resulted in Mike Brown finally firing Bob Bratkowski after 3 straight years of finishing 22nd or worse in points. Wow.

Mike Brown has always been this way. Just check out this article from 2000 about Kenny Anderson's demotion.

Quote:Posted: Wednesday, December 27, 2000

CINCINNATI (AP) - The Cincinnati Bengals demoted offensive coordinator Ken Anderson on Tuesday, their only significant move following their 10th straight season without a winning record.

The Bengals scored only 185 points this season, the fewest in franchise history, and had the least-effective passing offense in the NFL.

Anderson, who as a quarterback led the Bengals to the Super Bowl in 1981 and holds many of the club's passing records, has been the offensive coordinator for the last four seasons. He was offered the chance to stay as an assistant coach next season.

In an anticipated move, linebackers coach Mark Duffner was elevated to defensive coordinator. Duffner takes over for Dick LeBeau, who was promoted to head coach following the third game of the season and got a contract extension last week.

No other coaching changes were made Tuesday, though LeBeau said some could happen when the offensive coordinator is picked.

The Bengals (4-12) have the NFL's worst record since 1990, the last time they had a winning season.

LeBeau said the circumstances this season - Bruce Coslet quit after an 0-3 start - made it difficult on the staff.

"This was a very unusual season for us," LeBeau said. "Certainly we did not have the success that we wanted to have, but that our football team continued to compete, I think, is important. If we do not produce more, then I think we all will be held to a sterner judgment this time next year."

That's not likely. General manager Mike Brown rarely makes more than a couple of changes in his staff following a bad season, preferring continuity in coaching.

From 1997-99, the Bengals went 14-34 but made only two changes in their assistant coaching staff.

Anderson has long been one of Brown's favorites, playing for the Bengals from 1971-86. He became quarterbacks coach in 1993 and was elevated to offensive coordinator during the 1996 season.

Anderson was in charge of developing quarterbacks David Klingler and Akili Smith, both of whom struggled.

This is who Mike Brown is. He will fight tooth and nail not to fire coaches. He's only fired 2 head coaches in 26 year span that includes 15 losing seasons and no playoff wins. Coordinators are usually given an incredible amount of rope, and really have to tank hard for several seasons to get fired.

So what will you do if Mike, Paul Alexander and crew are all back for another fun-filled season? What if the only change is hiring a permanent OC?

I'll probably never be able to say 'I'm done' with this team and actually mean it - but if nothing changes and Marvin is re-signed, my overall interest level would be at near an all-time low. It would just be very hard to get excited for more of the same old, same old.

I'd be on here to root n gouge, though likely not as much.....and I would most likely not be able to tell you what happened during the games.  I told my family to not buy me anything Bengals related in 2011.....I'm right back there, and will remain there if ML and PA stay on this staff.

I ended DirectV and just listen to our games on the old board website when available.
Kinda reminds me of 1971-1973 when living in West Va,listening on the radio,except being competitive then.

well I think we were 4-11-1 that year... lol But I believe the only reason he was brought back after the 2010 season is due to the lockout and inability to get a new coach time with players.

And it seemed a good move because the next 5 years were the best 5 year stretch I have ever witnessed as a bengals fan.

(11-17-2017, 02:29 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'll probably never be able to say 'I'm done' with this team and actually mean it - but if nothing changes and Marvin is re-signed, my overall interest level would be at near an all-time low. It would just be very hard to get excited for more of the same old, same old.

Really Marvin Lewis is a much smaller problem in the grand scheme of things compared to Bengals Management. At this point, I view Marvin as more of a symptom than the actual disease.

The Bengals are managed to make a profit as the primary objective and to win second. Would they like to win? Yes - but only if they can do so in a fiscally responsible way.

I already post far less than I used to because of Marvin still being here and my overall interest in this team fading. It's my hometown, and it's my hometown team, but if there isn't sweeping changes made. From Marvin gone, to Alexander gone and just an overall culture change, I can't say I'll care much anymore. I mean, why care when the owner doesn't? Love Marge or hate her, that woman wanted to win, and I'd take her with all her flaws as an owner any day of the week over this sad sack of shit in Mike Brown.

(11-17-2017, 02:29 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'll probably never be able to say 'I'm done' with this team and actually mean it - but if nothing changes and Marvin is re-signed, my overall interest level would be at near an all-time low. It would just be very hard to get excited for more of the same old, same old.

Right there with ya. I made a promise to myself after week 1 that I would be done with this team if Marvin is brought back in 2018. And I would be done until Marvin Lewis is fired. I'll still keep an eye on the scores, stats, the draft and gladly (yet somewhat shamefully) wear my bengals apparel. But my Sunday's will be spent elsewhere. Maybe ill take up yoga with the lady friend


With that said, I believe this is it for Marvin. I do believe that Mike is stubborn/stupid enough to offer Marv an extension, even if we lose out. But I firmly believe that Marv will not take it. This team is done with him. I know for a fact Carlos wants Marv gone, as did Derron Smith. In fact, I think the only two players that want Marvin to stick around are Pacman and Burfict (go figure  ). He has very little support and has completely lost this team. Based on his more-intense-than-usual snarkiness in press conferences, I think he knows it. 


I do not expect Marvin back next year. If he is... Expect a mutiny of epic proportions, from both fans and players 

I’m optimistic that MB retires from football operations after this season and lets Katie put her stamp on the franchise with her first big highering of a new HC and possible more coaching staff changes.

(11-17-2017, 03:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Really Marvin Lewis is a much smaller problem in the grand scheme of things compared to Bengals Management. At this point, I view Marvin as more of a symptom than the actual disease.

The Bengals are managed to make a profit as the primary objective and to win second. Would they like to win? Yes - but only if they can do so in a fiscally responsible way.

Ugh, you're probably right.    Getting rid of Marv may be like taking a bunch of aspirin to treat a serious bacterial infection. It'll dull some of the symptoms, but the overall problem will get worse and worse    But honestly, I don't know if things are that hopeless.

Keep in mind, this team did make the playoffs five years in a row and for a few of those years, we were widely considered to be legitimate super bowl contenders. Many had us down as one of the most talented teams over that span and I definitely believe that we were. 

Those talented teams were put together with the same bengals management in place. What mainly held this team back from making a serious super bowl run? Coaching. Countless, disgusting, consistent, unacceptable coaching blunders in Primetime, steeler and playoff games. That ultimately falls on Marv. 

The biggest thing this front office is guilty of is retaining incompetence. Granted, that's a huge issue, but we have been able to get the pieces in place... We just need someone who can put it all together. If we had a coach who wasn't a perpetual choke artist coaching this roster after 2010, I think we'd have at least a playoff win by now. Possibly several.  

We had the best regular season success under Marvin Lewis for 5 seasons after that move. Marvin is an easy target but outside of Belicheck who else could lead this organization to that kind of success? The fact is that know one wants to admit or know one wants to see is that were about to head where the Browns are A factory of misery that will make 1996 look awesome.
Mike is not smart but want makes it worse is that he thinks he is smart. On top of that he is cheap and won't spend a dime on anything outside of the roster (which he has to because that is the rule). I have a prediction in 5 years people will be calling for Marvin back and he will come back but he will struggle because he will be 65 and he won't have the energy because well he is 65 and not 43 like he was in 2003.

(11-17-2017, 03:24 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Ugh, you're probably right.    Getting rid of Marv may be like taking a bunch of aspirin to treat a serious bacterial infection. It'll dull some of the symptoms, but the overall problem will get worse and worse    But honestly, I don't know if things are that hopeless.

Keep in mind, this team did make the playoffs five years in a row and for a few of those years, we were widely considered to be legitimate super bowl contenders. Many had us down as one of the most talented teams over that span and I definitely believe that we were. 

Those talented teams were put together with the same bengals management in place. What mainly held this team back from making a serious super bowl run? Coaching. Countless, disgusting, consistent, unacceptable coaching blunders in Primetime, steeler and playoff games. That ultimately falls on Marv. 

The biggest thing this front office is guilty of is retaining incompetence. Granted, that's a huge issue, but we have been able to get the pieces in place... We just need someone who can put it all together. If we had a coach who wasn't a perpetual choke artist coaching this roster after 2010, I think we'd have at least a playoff win by now. Possibly several.  

Largely the same management team is in place that hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

The 5 playoff years in a row were the results of 2 GREAT DRAFTS (Dalton/Green/Boling and Atkins/Dunlap). Our drafts since then have been average at best and many years below average. We simply haven't been drafting Pro Bowl players which is what you need to have a good team.

Green was a pretty consensus pick in the Top 5. We needed a QB because Palmer left so Dalton was an obvious choice. Finding Atkins was most likely luck.

Striking gold in 2 drafts doesn't equate to a skilled management team.

More so than Marvin Lewis, the reason we're bad now is simply we've lost a lot of quality players and not replaced them adequately through the draft. Over the past 2 free agency periods we lost: Jones, Sanu, Dansby, Peko, Nelson, Zeitler, Whitworth, Lamur, Smith, Hall, Hawk, Tate, and Burkhead).

We absolutely haven't replaced most of those guys. Jones had way more speed than Lafell. Peko was better than any of the guys starting next to Atkins at this point. Nelson was better than Williams has been against passes. Zeitler and Whitworth are so much better than the lineman we have. Hall was a quality veteran CB. Sanu was better than any WR on our roster outside of Green.

Blame Marvin if you want but losing those guys made us worse at 6-7 positions and the PFF ratings show it. We start 9-10 guys that grade out as Poor. You can't win with that.

(11-17-2017, 03:15 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I’m optimistic that MB retires from football operations after this season and lets Katie put her stamp on the franchise with her first big highering of a new HC and possible more coaching staff changes.

My thinking for the last year or so has been that Brown planned to step aside in the next couple years either after A- handing Katie a Superbowl winning team (his preference) or B- handing Katie a team after he fired the coaches and gave her a chance to start by bringing in whatever she wanted. I think he's held on — as some of the beat writers have mentioned — because he really feels like the last couple years were teams that could win it all. I'd say the unusual (for him) step of firing a coach early in the season goes along with that.

I don't know how much longer he'll keep clinging to A. My hope is 'not long,' because the longer he does, the few overall changes he's going to be in favor of. Realistically, bringing in all new coaches (and possibly schemes) puts you 2 years back.

(11-17-2017, 02:29 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'll probably never be able to say 'I'm done' with this team and actually mean it - but if nothing changes and Marvin is re-signed, my overall interest level would be at near an all-time low. It would just be very hard to get excited for more of the same old, same old.

Based on the past, we should expect the worst. We're in the same boat because regardless, I couldn't be done with the Bengals either.

I know I wouldn't be done with the Bengals, but.... I wouldn't buy any Bengal related gear, and I would only watch them on TV and not go to games. Honestly, I would probably just stop keeping up with the NFL all together. Even fantasy

(11-17-2017, 02:29 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'll probably never be able to say 'I'm done' with this team and actually mean it - but if nothing changes and Marvin is re-signed, my overall interest level would be at near an all-time low. It would just be very hard to get excited for more of the same old, same old.

Ya, I'm in the same boat.  I can never give up on the Bengals, but my interest is WAY down.  It's not even the losing so much as it is with the apparent lack of caring to make changes to try and right the ship that really makes me lose interest.

If the Bengals keep the status quo I will not buy Sunday Ticket next year.  I'm out of market, so that is the only (legal) way to watch the Bengals.

I will be done with the Bengals after 50 years if Marv is retained.

This is so far beyond ridiculous at this stage.

Mike Brown needs to hire the modern equivalent of Forrest Gregg for this sorry organization to have any chance of winning anything meaningful before the lease expires and they move.

I think our only saving grace is his contract is up.......

I will never abandon my team which is the Cincinnati Bengals but I must say I'm no longer invested emotionally.

My Hope Is that Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis are in tandem. That is if one stays the other stays if one leaves the other leaves.

If they do not re-sign Marvin Lewis My Hope and my prayers is that Mike Brown steps down completely and gives the team to Katie.

It would provide the opportunity for Katie to hire her own coaching staff and the Cincinnati Bengals can finally get new uniforms and possibly even get an extension in a refurbished Stadium.

If not the lease expires within the next several years and I am not convinced that Cincinnati Bengals are going to stay in Cincinnati Ohio.

Therefore my thinking is that Mike Brown can read the tea leafs and do what's best for the team and the city and step down.

He is 82 years old and will be 83 in August. I've been waiting for years for him to relinquish control of this team.

(11-17-2017, 02:29 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'll probably never be able to say 'I'm done' with this team and actually mean it - but if nothing changes and Marvin is re-signed, my overall interest level would be at near an all-time low. It would just be very hard to get excited for more of the same old, same old.

Same here Holic. Wyche and i were talking about this same thing the other day. I would still come on here and talk to the
guys but there would be no hope for us ever to win a playoff game if Marv and PA came back. No point in buying any Bengal
gear again let alone tickets.

Would be no more excitement for me either and i used to be one of the most optimistic fans.

Still, i think Marv at the very least will be set free to ride off into the sunset. Doubt he will be back.

If we move on from both Marv and PA i will be excited, these dudes are completely inept and sabotage the team and even
themselves they are so bad.