(08-20-2015, 01:11 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: or maybe what I got out of that is it's a team sport, and one player doesn't actually effect the outcome of the game if everyone actually plays as good as what their supposed to.

There seems to be a major contradiction there.  

(08-20-2015, 01:11 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: or maybe what I got out of that is it's a team sport, and one player doesn't actually effect the outcome of the game if everyone actually plays as good as what their supposed to.

Do you realize how ridiculous this actually sounds? So another team played absurdly good defense and in the run game for 3 games a few years ago, so that means QBs across the board (actually just Andy) shouldn't be held accountable for poor performances.

The spinning is hilarious, I'll give you that much.

I actually saw a lot of passes that I hope he was only attempting because it was in training camp. Some of them worked out, others didn't. Either way, I would be pretty pissed if he threw to receivers that well covered that often during a real game.

(08-19-2015, 11:58 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hold on to your britches because it's coming!  

I'll be at both PrimeTime home games to watch him get over that hump 

I hope like Hell that you're right.
I'm reeeaaaalllly sick of "maybe next year".

(08-19-2015, 11:58 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hold on to your britches because it's coming!  

Is that the title of the next locker room video starring Andy?

Sounds inspiring.

Not sure anyone should care anymore how Dalton looks now or in the regular season. At this point it's all about how he looks in the playoffs.

(08-20-2015, 07:41 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Do you realize how ridiculous this actually sounds? So another team played absurdly good defense and in the run game for 3 games a few years ago, so that means QBs across the board (actually just Andy) shouldn't be held accountable for poor performances.

The spinning is hilarious, I'll give you that much.

Yeah because we didn't have a good defense going into the playoffs right? What people make it seem like is that we have had just such a good team that we should be winning playoffs even though no one on the team shows up, so let's blame the QB. There has been multiple times that QBs don't have good playoff games and still win because the team stepped up.

(08-20-2015, 11:20 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah because we didn't have a good defense going into the playoffs right? What people make it seem like is that we have had just such a good team that we should be winning playoffs even though no one on the team shows up, so let's blame the QB. There has been multiple times that QBs don't have good playoff games and still win because the team stepped up.

Can you start a post without "Yeah, because *insert condescending statement/question*"?? Nah, probably not.

There have been multiple teams that haven't played well and won playoff games because the QB stepped up as well, so why do you only care to bring up when the opposite happens?

Football is a team game, I'm right with you on there. It's just funny that you're always ready to hype Andy for stuff when he plays well, but when HE plays like shit, it's because of everybody in the universe except for him and "OMG IT'S A TEAM GAME STOP LEAVE ANDY ALOONNNEEEEE!!!!!".

I'm not talking about the rest of the team right now, we can talk about them later on if you'd like, let's talk Andy. Andy Dalton hasn't played well enough in the playoffs thus far in his career, true or false? No excuses, no if's, and's, and but's. Just a true or false answer to this part, please.

(08-20-2015, 11:27 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Can you start a post without "Yeah, because *insert condescending statement/question*"?? Nah, probably not.

There have been multiple teams that haven't played well and won playoff games because the QB stepped up as well, so why do you only care to bring up when the opposite happens?

Football is a team game, I'm right with you on there. It's just funny that you're always ready to hype Andy for stuff when he plays well, but when HE plays like shit, it's because of everybody in the universe except for him and "OMG IT'S A TEAM GAME STOP LEAVE ANDY ALOONNNEEEEE!!!!!".

I'm not talking about the rest of the team right now, we can talk about them later on if you'd like, let's talk Andy. Andy Dalton hasn't played well enough in the playoffs thus far in his career, true or false? No excuses, no if's, and's, and but's. Just a true or false answer to this part, please.

He played well enough to win in the Colts game, but the team just wasn't there to let that happen.

(08-20-2015, 11:35 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: He played well enough to win in the Colts game, but the team just wasn't there to let that happen.

So we agree that Andy didn't play well enough to expect a win in the other games?

Usually a true or false question doesn't have a 21 word answer, but I actually think we may be getting somewhere for once so I'll let that slide.

(08-20-2015, 11:42 AM)djs7685 Wrote: So we agree that Andy didn't play well enough to expect a win in the other games?

Usually a true or false question doesn't have a 21 word answer, but I actually think we may be getting somewhere for once so I'll let that slide.

If Dalton didn't have to throw 50 times to make up for Gios fumble, and A.J. Green dropping the TD pass we might have won the SD game too.

(08-20-2015, 07:58 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I actually saw a lot of passes that I hope he was only attempting because it was in training camp. Some of them worked out, others didn't. Either way,  I would be pretty pissed if he threw to receivers that well covered that often during a real game.

That this as you will, but it seems to be just practice situations as confirmed from bengals.com:

"Sometimes what you see in practice isn’t real. Take quarterback Andy Dalton’s interception from the five-yard line in 7-on-7, when rookie safety Derron Smith stepped in front of a slant intended for wide receiver A.J. Green. As Smith patiently explained to the media after practice that his responsibility in that particular three-receiver set is to drop into the hole on the weak side, offensive coordinator Hue Jackson chimed in.


“Wait a minute, wait a minute,” Jackson said. “I told the quarterback to throw the ball. It’s on me. I told he quarterback to throw the ball in that situation. I just want you guys to understand that.”

Dalton has thrown only three career red-zone picks with a ratio of TD passes-to-picks bettered only by Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson. He confirmed after practice, “Never would have thrown it in a game. We were trying to see how much we could get away with on a certain look and it wasn’t there.” 


http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Notes-McCarron-throws-and-says-hell-play-Adams-takes-Re-stocking-at-receiver/750833fa-ea2e-4491-a82c-667fc4c9129b

(08-20-2015, 07:58 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I actually saw a lot of passes that I hope he was only attempting because it was in training camp. Some of them worked out, others didn't. Either way,  I would be pretty pissed if he threw to receivers that well covered that often during a real game.

A lot of them were in drills like 7-on-7, which you're basically just throwing the ball to whoever you think has a chance, whether they're open or not, so I'm not real worried about it.

He did stick a lot of those throws into tight coverage, but I just hope he doesn't take too many unnecessary risks during the season just because they're working now.  That part, I agree with you.

(08-20-2015, 08:31 AM)Harmening Wrote: I hope like Hell that you're right.
I'm reeeaaaalllly sick of "maybe next year".

As long as we stay relatively healthy, this is our year 

People say that every year, but look at our roster and see that it's loaded.

Also, if the first preseason game was any indication, we'll use all of our weapons, like Eifert, in the manner that we should.

(08-20-2015, 10:48 AM)jj22 Wrote: Not sure anyone should care anymore how Dalton looks now or in the regular season. At this point it's all about how he looks in the playoffs.

Because, like I said, it will build his confidence, which will carry into the playoffs.

Also, if his skills are better, then there's more room for error.

(08-20-2015, 11:45 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: If Dalton didn't have to throw 50 times to make up for Gios fumble, and A.J. Green dropping the TD pass we might have won the SD game too.

Christ, okay, nevermind.

(08-20-2015, 11:49 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Christ, okay, nevermind.

So, because Dalton had to try and clean up the mess from his team it's his fault? He was playing very well until he was asked to throw the ball almost every play.

(08-20-2015, 11:51 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: So, because Dalton had to try and clean up the mess from his team it's his fault? He was playing very well until he was asked to throw the ball almost every play.

So it's okay to throw awful passes to the other team continuously and fumble untouched just because Gio fumbled in the first half? Sure thing, dude! Well, I thought we WERE getting somewhere. I guess not. The "IF" train is in full force yet again.

I can bring up a ton of "IF" scenarios too, but I'm not because I understand more about how a logical discussion works than that. I don't need hypothetical scenarios and excuses to make my points. That's the difference between people who are realistic about Andy versus those who aren't. The wacked out Andy-nuthuggers have to constantly be spinning and making excuses while I can just sit here and show things that DID happen to support my stance. I don't need to make up hypotheticals and blame other people. Andy played poorly against San Diego, plain and simple. It was nobody else's fault that he looked like shit. Stop being this obsessed.

(08-19-2015, 12:30 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Well, I'm an Andy supporter, but he has always looked good in camp. He is a pretty smart QB and smart QBs always look good in camp.

The problem with Andy are his in game decisions under pressure, so we really won't know much till then.

The Giants game was a good buffer for what could be, but then again as Fred detailed in one depressing post, the Giants don't have the best defense.

At year 5, expect more of the same. Some days Andy will look like Drew Brees, other days he will look like Blake Bortles.

At the same time, I have a glimmer of hope that things will be different this year. Andy seems more mature to me, on the field and in the pressers.

Hopefully he took the next step and finally reaches his potential. Someday Andy will be a great QB in the league (instead of just good) but its hard to say which team that will be for.

Pretty much my thoughts. Once Dalton is really under pressure and performs well we will start to know
if he really has turned the corner and became a great QB in this league. He has shown in the past that he
can play great, it is the inconsistency and the way he plays in the Playoffs that has been the questions.

We will see.

(08-20-2015, 11:59 AM)djs7685 Wrote: So it's okay to throw awful passes to the other team continuously and fumble untouched just because Gio fumbled in the first half? Sure thing, dude! Well, I thought we WERE getting somewhere. I guess not. The "IF" train is in full force yet again.

I can bring up a ton of "IF" scenarios too, but I'm not because I understand more about how a logical discussion works than that. I don't need hypothetical scenarios and excuses to make my points. That's the difference between people who are realistic about Andy versus those who aren't. The wacked out Andy-nuthuggers have to constantly be spinning and making excuses while I can just sit here and show things that DID happen to support my stance. I don't need to make up hypotheticals and blame other people. Andy played poorly against San Diego, plain and simple. It was nobody else's fault that he looked like shit. Stop being this obsessed.

So you're saying we should ignore how bad the other offensive players played and just focus on Dalton even though this is a team sport, and players results depends on how well everyone else plays?

(08-20-2015, 12:03 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: So you're saying we should ignore how bad the other offensive players played and just focus on Dalton even though this is a team sport, and players results depends on how well everyone else plays?

No, when did I say that? That's just a classic strawman argument. I never said anything remotely close to that.

I'm saying that you shouldn't deflect blame to everybody else. Andy looked like crap. Gio fumbled. The offense played like shit in general. Gruden didn't have a great gameplan. All of that is true.

None of those statements make the others not true though, which is what you aren't comprehending. Andy played like shit and Gio fumbling didn't happen because of each other. Gio fumbled because he played like crap. Andy threw to the other team and fumbled untouched because he played like crap. Andy didn't throw to the other team and fumble untouched because Gio fumbled in the first half.

(08-20-2015, 12:06 PM)djs7685 Wrote: No, when did I say that? That's just a classic strawman argument. I never said anything remotely close to that.

I'm saying that you shouldn't deflect blame to everybody else. Andy looked like crap. Gio fumbled. The offense played like shit in general. Gruden didn't have a great gameplan. All of that is true.

None of those statements make the others not true though, which is what you aren't comprehending. Andy played like shit and Gio fumbling didn't happen because of each other. Gio fumbled because he played like crap. Andy threw to the other team and fumbled untouched because he played like crap. Andy didn't throw to the other team and fumble untouched because Gio fumbled in the first half.

(08-20-2015, 11:59 AM)djs7685 Wrote: It was nobody else's fault that he looked like shit.

Cause and effect. Gio fumbling took points off the board. Green not catching that TD pass took points off the board. Those things and others made Dalton have to throw the ball more than what he should have, and because he threw the ball 50 times more negative things will happen because the defense knows he's going to throw the ball almost every play.