(08-20-2015, 02:47 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I have shown that the first INT was due to having 3 defenders in his face OPINION

So, you think that we wouldn't have been running more if Gio would have got a TD there? OPINION We would have been up by 14 at that point. FACT (BASED ON A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION FWIW) There's not way we wouldn't drain the clock by running the ball. OPINION

There was only 1 bad turnover by Dalton that game OPINION, and that was his 2nd INT. His first one was the OL's fault OPINION, and the fumble was because the OL couldn't stop the pressure OPINION, and made Dalton roll out. By that point we had about 40 plays and only 15 of them were run plays FACT WITH INCORRECT NUMBERS, so yes the defense knew we were going to pass the ball. OPINION

What QB can throw dimes when he's getting pressure in his face the whole game? Why do you not think that the game would have been totally different if the other players actually made plays when Dalton was doing good? You just want to ignore everyone else falling flat on their face, and only point out when Dalton doesn't do good because everyone else can't do their job. ALL OPINION

(08-20-2015, 02:57 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Except I used facts, and you just ignored them.

Your only fact was something based off a completely hypothetical situation, and one would have been a fact but the numbers were off. None of the ones that "proved" anything were facts though.

Do you honestly not know the difference between a fact an an opinion?

(08-20-2015, 03:00 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Your only fact was something based off a completely hypothetical situation, and one would have been a fact but the numbers were off. None of the ones that "proved" anything were facts though.

Do you honestly not know the difference between a fact an an opinion?

Having 3 defenders in his face isn't an opinion. It's a fact.

The OL giving up a pressure and Dalton having to roll out is a fact not an opinion.

My bad we had 41 plays that weren't punts and 15 of them were runs.

You ignoring facts isn't an opinion.

I guess you need to learn the difference between facts and opinions.

(08-20-2015, 03:04 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Having 3 defenders in his face isn't an opinion. It's a fact.

The OL giving up a pressure and Dalton having to roll out is a fact not an opinion.

My bad we had 41 plays that weren't punts and 15 of them were runs.

You ignoring facts isn't an opinion.

I guess you need to learn the difference between facts and opinions.

You said he threw the INT because of the defenders in his face, OPINION. I never said he didn't have defenders in his face, but you claiming that it's what caused the INT is OPINION. You need to get better reading comprehension my friend.

Pressure isn't an official NFL stat, and Dalton "had" to roll out is an OPINION.

I didn't ignore facts, that would be a LIE I guess, not even an opinion.

I guess you need to learn the difference between facts and opinion. By legal definition, about zero of your bullshit rant was a fact, so I don't know if you want to talk about who is using facts and who isn't.

(08-20-2015, 03:06 PM)djs7685 Wrote: You said he threw the INT because of the defenders in his face, OPINION. I never said he didn't have defenders in his face, but you claiming that it's what caused the INT is OPINION. You need to get better reading comprehension my friend.

Pressure isn't an official NFL stat, and Dalton "had" to roll out is an OPINION.

I didn't ignore facts, that would be a LIE I guess, not even an opinion.

I guess you need to learn the difference between facts and opinion. By legal definition, about zero of your bullshit rant was a fact, so I don't know if you want to talk about who is using facts and who isn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7xvm-cAuxM

Let's see... One.. two... three defenders in Daltons face... HMMMMM

Dalton didn't have to do anything. The OL forced him to try and go for the 1st down, because we were down, and that was the 3rd down. If he didn't scramble for the first down everyone would be crying that Dalton just gave up on the play. If you can't see that IDK what's wrong with your eyes.

Ok I was 1 play off from being right. In fact it's going more in my favor than yours. The Bengals had 41 plays that weren't punts and 15 of them were runs.

(08-20-2015, 03:12 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7xvm-cAuxM

Let's see... One.. two... three defenders in Daltons face... HMMMMM

Dalton didn't have to do anything. The OL forced him to try and go for the 1st down, because we were down, and that was the 3rd down. If he didn't scramble for the first yard everyone would be crying that Dalton just gave up on the play. If you can't see that IDK what's wrong with your eyes.

Ok I was 1 play off from being right. In fact it's going more in my favor than yours. The Bengals had 41 plays that weren't punts and 15 of them were runs.

I never said the defenders weren't there, I said that your OPINION of that being the reason for the INT is just that, an opinion.

It's fine if you wish to stand by your statements, I'm okay with that, just don't pull the bullshit of telling me that I'm ignoring your "facts", when we've mostly been debating about your opinions and interpretations of what happened in the game. If anyone has been using facts, it's probably the guy trying to just give Andy blame for what it says on the stat sheet under "Andy Dalton".

You can have your opinions, just understand that they're opinions.

(08-20-2015, 03:15 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I never said the defenders weren't there, I said that your OPINION of that being the reason for the INT is just that, an opinion.

It's fine if you wish to stand by your statements, I'm okay with that, just don't pull the bullshit of telling me that I'm ignoring your "facts", when we've mostly been debating about your opinions and interpretations of what happened in the game. If anyone has been using facts, it's probably the guy trying to just give Andy blame for what it says on the stat sheet under "Andy Dalton".

You can have your opinions, just understand that they're opinions.

Yeah just ignore the reasons why Dalton has those stats. That's the best way to do things just look at the end result and give no mind to how that end result happened.

Think of those advantages certain teams have in the NFL. They never have injuries, bad OL, bad playcalling, WR drops or running bad routes.

Why can't we ever be so lucky?

(08-20-2015, 03:19 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Think of those advantages certain teams have in the NFL.  They never have injuries, bad OL, bad playcalling, WR drops or running bad routes.

Why can't we ever be so lucky?

Maybe their coaches know how to coach around those things?

(08-20-2015, 03:16 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah just ignore the reasons why Dalton has those stats. That's the best way to do things just look at the end result and give no mind to how that end result happened.

No, I do look at how the result happened.

In my opinion, and many others, Andy Dalton deserved the statline he had in that game. He played well for about 2 1/2 drives all together, and then shit the bed. Pressure or no pressure, Gio fumbling or not, there's no excuse for those INTs and the fumble. That's MY opinion. I believe he is at fault for those things.

You believe otherwise, hence the 4 page argument.

How are you not understanding this?? You keep saying that I don't care what happened during the game, when I obviously do, I'm just seeing things differently because I'm not in love with 1 specific player on the team. Andy was absolutely to blame for both INTs and the fumble. No doubt about it in my mind, you can disagree until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't mean I didn't watch the game and I'm blindly believing the stats. I just happen to think the stats are justified, gee, isn't that so crazy?

(08-20-2015, 03:21 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Maybe their coaches know how to coach around those things?

So we have a crappy HC and a QB that has 1 TD to 6 INTs leading the way?

Sounds like a great formula for success.  

(08-20-2015, 03:21 PM)djs7685 Wrote: No, I do look at how the result happened.

In my opinion, and many others, Andy Dalton deserved the statline he had in that game. He played well for about 2 1/2 drives all together, and then shit the bed. Pressure or no pressure, Gio fumbling or not, there's no excuse for those INTs and the fumble. That's MY opinion. I believe he is at fault for those things.

You believe otherwise, hence the 4 page argument.

How are you not understanding this?? You keep saying that I don't care what happened during the game, when I obviously do, I'm just seeing things differently because I'm not in love with 1 specific player on the team. Andy was absolutely to blame for both INTs and the fumble. No doubt about it in my mind, you can disagree until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't mean I didn't watch the game and I'm blindly believing the stats. I just happen to think the stats are justified, gee, isn't that so crazy?

In my opinion AJ shit the bed also by dropping a TD pass with 6 minutes to go. AD had bad moments, that was a great moment, but it was never realized as AJ let his QB down and his team.

So, instead of down 3 with 6 minutes to go with 3 timeouts, we are down 10. Next drive Bengals defense gives up long TD and we lose by 17.

My point is ignoring this was a very bad play by AJ (because it makes AD look better  that game) is as bad as the homers who ignore all of Andy's mistakes. We will never know if this one play (great pass by AD to AJ) would have resulted in a victory, but we do know the game went from winnable to a loss within a few minutes and none of that was on AD.

(08-20-2015, 03:42 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: In my opinion AJ shit the bed also by dropping a TD pass with 6 minutes to go. AD had bad moments, that was a great moment, but it was never realized as AJ let his QB down and his team.

So, instead of down 3 with 6 minutes to go with 3 timeouts, we are down 10. Next drive Bengals defense gives up long TD and we lose by 17.

My point is ignoring this was a very bad play by AJ (because it makes AD look better  that game) is as bad as the homers who ignore all of Andy's mistakes. We will never know if this one play (great pass by AD to AJ) would have resulted in a victory, but we do know the game went from winnable to a loss within a few minutes and none of that was on AD.

A lot of people view that as an overthrow and not a drop.

For example, PFF doesn't credit A.J. Green with a drop in that game.

I'd have to go back and watch it again (if anyone has the clip right now, that'd be awesome!), because I remember being suuuuper pissed at A.J. at first, but afterwards watching a replay and not believing it to be a drop.

(08-20-2015, 03:48 PM)djs7685 Wrote: A lot of people view that as an overthrow and not a drop.

For example, PFF doesn't credit A.J. Green with a drop in that game.

I'd have to go back and watch it again (if anyone has the clip right now, that'd be awesome!), because I remember being suuuuper pissed at A.J. at first, but afterwards watching a replay and not believing it to be a drop.

An overthrow? Hell no. Hell ***** no.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014010500/2013/POST18/chargers@bengals#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap2000000309501&tab=videos

4:30 mark play starts.
On what ***** planet is that an overthrow

(08-20-2015, 03:48 PM)djs7685 Wrote: A lot of people view that as an overthrow and not a drop.

For example, PFF doesn't credit A.J. Green with a drop in that game.

I'd have to go back and watch it again (if anyone has the clip right now, that'd be awesome!), because I remember being suuuuper pissed at A.J. at first, but afterwards watching a replay and not believing it to be a drop.

I would love to see a clip. I would also love to listen to AJ's interview after the game. He stated he dropped it. He said he was not aware the safety was coming over so he failed to go after the ball hard to secure it. I remember going back and watching it and he was tentative catching the ball and he told us why, he thought he was free from the CB with no help. He was wrong and thus why it was broken up. It was a great throw, a 20 million dollar throw and a $500K catch by AJ. I love AJ, but that was on him and he knew it.

(08-20-2015, 03:53 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: An overthrow? Hell no. Hell ***** no.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014010500/2013/POST18/chargers@bengals#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap2000000309501&tab=videos

4:30 mark play starts.
On what ***** planet is that an overthrow

Wow thanks for the quick response man.

Anyway, yep, it turns out that I was thinking of a different play/different game (that's why I wanted a clip, haven't watched that game in quite a while).

That one wasn't a drop because the defender got his arm in there and made the play. Not a drop, but I can understand why anyone would feel that he should have done more to catch it.

(08-20-2015, 03:56 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Wow thanks for the quick response man.

Anyway, yep, it turns out that I was thinking of a different play/different game (that's why I wanted a clip, haven't watched that game in quite a while).

That one wasn't a drop because the defender got his arm in there and made the play. Not a drop, but I can understand why anyone would feel that he should have done more to catch it.

That's why they didn't call it a drop but he clearly could have should have caught it. 
For all intents and purposes it's a drop

I find it interesting how Andy "needs to make these throws for the coin he makes" which is actually "average" money yet that's a catch a guy who is about to be paid like a top 5 NFL WR but somehow it's not a crucial focal point...

(08-20-2015, 03:57 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: That's why they didn't call it a drop but he clearly could have should have caught it. 
For all intents and purposes it's a drop

I find it interesting how Andy "needs to make these throws for the coin he makes" which is actually "average" money yet that's a catch a guy who is about to be paid like a top 5 NFL WR but somehow it's not a crucial focal point...

I agree with ya man, I don't get all the Andy blasting when they make comments about his salary.

I mean, these guys are paid analysts, don't they realize how contracts work? They act like the Bengals just gave him $100 million the day he signed his deal...

Yeah, A.J. went a bit lazy on that, he should have done a bit more to at least try and pull that one in. At the same time, I don't agree with Luvnit that it was a "$20 million throw" and "great throw by AD". A.J. definitely had to slow down and adjust to that, you can't call that a $20 million pass. In stride, A.J. hauls that in 10/10 times.

(08-20-2015, 04:05 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I agree with ya man, I don't get all the Andy blasting when they make comments about his salary.

I mean, these guys are paid analysts, don't they realize how contracts work? They act like the Bengals just gave him $100 million the day he signed his deal...

Yeah, A.J. went a bit lazy on that, he should have done a bit more to at least try and pull that one in. At the same time, I don't agree with Luvnit that it was a "$20 million throw" and "great throw by AD". A.J. definitely had to slow down and adjust to that, you can't call that a $20 million pass. In stride, A.J. hauls that in 10/10 times.

Not every pass is perfect and that's supposed to be the big benefit of having AJ "Freakin" Green on the roster. If it's close it's caught. 

In stride just about every WR hauls it in. That's what separates AJ from the rest, well it's supposed to.

That's the throw Andy needed to make and did make. It's the kind of throw that changes narratives and wins games.

(08-20-2015, 04:09 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Not every pass is perfect and that's supposed to be the big benefit of having AJ "Freakin" Green on the roster. If it's close it's caught. 

In stride just about every WR hauls it in. That's what separates AJ from the rest, well it's supposed to.

That's the throw Andy needed to make and did make. It's the kind of throw that changes narratives and wins games.

I don't have a problem saying that A.J. could/should have caught it and that Andy got the ball in the area of where he needed it to be.

I just can't call it a "$20 million throw" and give 100% of the blame to A.J., Andy could have definitely put it in a better place for him. The defender also made a good play on it, can't discredit him for that.

(08-20-2015, 04:13 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I don't have a problem saying that A.J. could/should have caught it and that Andy got the ball in the area of where he needed it to be.

I just can't call it a "$20 million throw" and give 100% of the blame to A.J., Andy could have definitely put it in a better place for him. The defender also made a good play on it, can't discredit him for that.

No but that happens a lot to AJ in the playoffs...eventually he has to be the one to make the play. 
He and Andy just can't seem to connect for the big one and it's a lot of back and forth. 

AJ can't haul in a pass then Dalton misses him the next time. But people only remember the latter. It's happened just about every game.