Through a mutual "friend" Chick Ludwig, I saw a post from Willie Anderson that read something to the effect of "We back in it...!" and gave his twitter address. Sure, it was just an attempt at getting followers (something I just don't get...and I hear people pay services to get more? I digress) but I responded with a little sarcasm:

Me: "Willie, how does offensive line coach sound to you?"

Willie: "...sounds like a coach that coaches the offensive line that spends very little time actually coaching and teaching. Lots of paperwork putting in plays and watching film. Very few coaching and training is done"

Me: "I mean I want you to coach them, and paperwork doesn't win games....coaches that can truly teach can!"

Willie: "that's all coaches. They have a hard ass job trying to get guys to learn system and skills. All Oline coaches work their asses off. Just have to have players that do it for them when you're in the pros. Guys have to train skills in the offseason. Coaches don't have time to teach anymore"

Me: "I understand the point you are making. Here's mine: until a scheme that isn't always falling back, and isn't improving the run blocking is installed, everything else should become second priority.

I find it interesting that Willie perceives even the Bengals coaches as "working their asses off", but how much of it is that busy work that people that don't really know what they are doing are always running around trying to act like they have no time. You hear time and again what a great teacher Belicheck is when it comes to technique, etc. In my opinion, you need to MAKE TIME to work the technique in your most glaring faults because nothing else will matter if you can't execute when you need to....which, is pretty much always for this team.

Very telling. He kind of defended Alexander without actually doing it.

'Guys have to train skills in the offseason. Coaches don't have time to teach anymore.'

If our coaches didn't have to scout they might have a little more time to do other things...like coach.

Has this guy every had an o-line coach other than Paul Alexander? Pro player or not, he might not have a whole lot of perspective on what coaches really do if he's only played for the Mike Brown-era Bengals.

Ok, I see he spent part of a season in Baltimore...either way, the guy might have some Bengals blinders on.

I really dont understand the whole organizational side of football sometimes. I mean, is it really as hard as people make it out to be? Does it really take that much time planning and studying in football? Like, how is it that our offensive line coach doesnt have the time to watch some tape, see the deficiencies that our offensive lineman/line have, and point them out? From there, the offensive lineman's job is to correct them. How hard can that seriously be?

How hard is it to just tell the offensive lineman, "hey guys! your first step shouldnt be backward, it should be forwards. You should be blocking your man downfield, not letting them into the backfield." Maybe its harder than that and im missing something. Doesnt seem like it, tho.

Maybe that is happening and our offensive lineman just arent good enough. If thats the case, then the blame should lay on the guy who wanted to draft these lineman out of college...

And another question is...then why arent coaches training guys in the off season? Last time I checked a football player is paid year round. Work on your craft during the off season and teach them when you dont have to watch as much tape and "paper work".

(11-20-2017, 10:30 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Through a mutual "friend" Chick Ludwig, I saw a post from Willie Anderson that read something to the effect of "We back in it...!" and gave his twitter address.  Sure, it was just an attempt at getting followers (something I just don't get...and I hear people pay services to get more?  I digress) but I responded with a little sarcasm:

Me: "Willie, how does offensive line coach sound to you?"

Willie:  "...sounds like a coach that coaches the offensive line that spends very little time actually coaching and teaching.  Lots of paperwork putting in plays and watching film.  Very few coaching and training is done"

Me: "I mean I want you to coach them, and paperwork doesn't win games....coaches that can truly teach can!"

Willie:  "that's all coaches.  They have a hard ass job trying to get guys to learn system and skills.  All Oline coaches work their asses off.  Just have to have players that do it for them when you're in the pros.  Guys have to train skills in the offseason.  Coaches don't have time to teach anymore"

Me:  "I understand the point you are making.  Here's mine:  until a scheme that isn't always falling back, and isn't improving the run blocking is installed, everything else should become second priority.  

I find it interesting that Willie perceives even the Bengals coaches as "working their asses off", but how much of it is that busy work that people that don't really know what they are doing are always running around trying to act like they have no time.  You hear time and again what a great teacher Belicheck is when it comes to technique, etc.  In my opinion, you need to MAKE TIME to work the technique in your most glaring faults because nothing else will matter if you can't execute when you need to....which, is pretty much always for this team.

dude willie Anderson is a pro if he is telling you the OL coaches are working their asses off they are.  he was here for many years and just like he says the players have to put work in themselves too.

It seems to me, they hardly practice anymore during the season. They are actually on the field 2 hrs a day and walkthru on Friday, is this correct? You can't tell me that can't work on fundamentals 2 hrs a days and then work in the game plan during their walkthru on Friday.....

(11-20-2017, 11:49 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: And another question is...then why arent coaches training guys in the off season? Last time I checked a football player is paid year round. Work on your craft during the off season and teach them when you dont have to watch as much tape and "paper work".

I don't think league rules allow that. They have scheduled OTA's and camps, outside of that I don't think the coaches are allowed to work with the players. That's why they train at Ignition and places like that instead of at PBS in the off season....

(11-20-2017, 11:49 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: And another question is...then why arent coaches training guys in the off season? Last time I checked a football player is paid year round. 

No, they don't. Players do not get paid during the off season, OTA's, training camp or pre-season games. (they do get a weekly per-diem for expenses for OTAs and training camp).
During the regular season, they get paid 1/16th of their salary per game. Post season games are paid by the league, not the team.


Hey, I just finally figured out why the Bengals don't come down harder on Burfict for getting suspended....every game he's suspended, MB saves money! He saves 1/16th of his salary plus I believe Burfict gets an active roster bonus, which wouldn't have to be paid when suspended!  It's all starting to make sense now..... 


What I got out of Willie Anderson's response was don't be overly critical of the offense coaches. You have to have quality players to start with, willing to put in the time and effort it takes to excel. In other words, coaches can do what they do, but today's NFL isn't conducive to polishing turds. 

At least that's what I got out of it.
 

It's really hard to develop offensive lineman in today's NFL because of the lack of time in practices in the spring and training camp. Also less practice in pads during the regular season hurt o line development. Which makes you wonder what the hell were the Bengals thinking by letting both Zeitler and Whitworth go?

Good stuff Willie.

I guess the successful teams have a lot more self motivated players then.

Either way.

Somebody really sucks.

When Alexander gets his head out of his ass... uh I mean "paperwork" then maybe perhaps... just maybe he could try to change the unmotivated player culture that he "coaches".

Sorry dude. It's still just an excuse without accountability.

(11-20-2017, 01:05 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: It's really hard to develop offensive lineman in today's NFL because of the lack of time in practices in the spring and training camp. Also less practice in pads during the regular season hurt o line development. Which makes you wonder what the hell were the Bengals thinking by letting both Zeitler and Whitworth go?

Whatever will the rest of the NFL teams do?

It's such a quandary...  

Paperwork and such.  Ya know.  Getting your direct deposit checks routed properly, buying new pianos, and such just take all of your attention away from getting these guys ready for gameday.

(11-20-2017, 11:51 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: dude willie Anderson is a pro if he is telling you the OL coaches are working their asses off they are.  he was here for many years and just like he says the players have to put work in themselves too.

Yeah, but you have to consider that these ex-players are still very guarded with what they say. They don't want to burn any bridges and get blackballed. Willie still does many things for/with the team, including just randomly showing up around the facilities. Willie literally just made a defense of Marvin Lewis disguised as an attack on Dave Shula the other day.

Love Willie, but he's homering it up big time. Marvin and Paul Alexander deserve to be fired more than any of their peers in the NFL.

(11-20-2017, 02:39 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah, but you have to consider that these ex-players are still very guarded with what they say. They don't want to burn any bridges and get blackballed. Willie still does many things for/with the team, including just randomly showing up around the facilities. Willie literally just made a defense of Marvin Lewis disguised as an attack on Dave Shula the other day.

Love Willie, but he's homering it up big time. Marvin and Paul Alexander deserve to be fired more than any of their peers in the NFL.

He's homering it up but he's also not wrong.
With the NFLPA rules about practice and how colleges are enforcing practice regulations now, you have to seek out additional work if you're an OL now.

You have to want to put in that extra work to succeed. 
There are so many camps and places that offer training that you can't get from a team. 

There's an OL problem across the sport. At every level. 
Started when contact was put on major limits at practices. 

And the problem here, specifically, is so layered and starts with Mike Brown and his cheap ways forcing coaches to do more than, well....coach. 

(11-20-2017, 02:52 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He's homering it up but he's also not wrong.
With the NFLPA rules about practice and how colleges are enforcing practice regulations now, you have to seek out additional work if you're an OL now.

You have to want to put in that extra work to succeed. 
There are so many camps and places that offer training that you can't get from a team. 

There's an OL problem across the sport. At every level. 
Started when contact was put on major limits at practices. 

And the problem here, specifically, is so layered and starts with Mike Brown and his cheap ways forcing coaches to do more than, well....coach. 

Agreed, but we're still dead last in rushing and YPC, and near bottom in sacks/hurries/hits.

23 teams are averaging 100+ rush yards. We're averaging 68. 

21 teams are averaging 4.0+ YPC. We're averaging 3.0. 

If it's guys not willing to put in work, then you still blame PA for selecting guys with poor work ethic. I'm not buying that PA has no time in the offseason to work on technique, though. During the season, sure. IIRC, it was Zeitler who said they don't make corrections to technique in-season. That would imply that they do make corrections in minicamps and training camp.

(11-20-2017, 03:06 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If it's guys not willing to put in work, then you still blame PA for selecting guys with poor work ethic. I'm not buying that PA has no time in the offseason to work on technique, though. During the season, sure. IIRC, it was Zeitler who said they don't make corrections to technique in-season. That would imply that they do make corrections in minicamps and training camp.

You are kind of missing the point. He can't work with those guys in the offseason by rule. 

Quote:During the 2011 labor negotiation, one big give-back from the owners to players related to work rules. Each team’s offseason program was cut by five weeks, from 14 to nine, with only five of those weeks to include on-field work. The number of hours within that time was reduced. Summer two-a-days were eliminated. Allowable contact was reduced drastically.

It's up to the players, now more than ever, to seek out additional work because the team isn't allowed to. 

9 weeks, 5 on field and with incredibly limited work is not enough time to "coach guys up" on the OL. 

You can blame PA for a lot of things and that's fine. But don't act like Willie is blowing smoke when he says players have to take the initiative. 

There are a ton of contributing factors to why we are so bad running the ball. OL being part of it and probably the biggest but not the only part. 

And we should really be more focused on why PA is so involved in the draft, there's no way a position coach/assistant head coach can have the time thoroughly scout as well. 
It all comes back to the systemic problems from Mike Brown. 

(11-20-2017, 03:16 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: You are kind of missing the point. He can't work with those guys in the offseason by rule. 

It's up to the players, now more than ever, to seek out additional work because the team isn't allowed to. 

9 weeks, 5 on field and with incredibly limited work is not enough time to "coach guys up" on the OL. 

You can blame PA for a lot of things and that's fine. But don't act like Willie is blowing smoke when he says players have to take the initiative. 

There are a ton of contributing factors to why we are so bad running the ball. OL being part of it and probably the biggest but not the only part. 

And we should really be more focused on why PA is so involved in the draft, there's no way a position coach/assistant head coach can have the time thoroughly scout as well. 
It all comes back to the systemic problems from Mike Brown. 

I'm not sure what point I missed. He has some time to work with these guys, and all 32 teams are working under the same parameters. Yet it's our run game that's consistently 20th or worse in efficiency since 2006. Our run game that's bottom of the barrel this year. Our team allowing a top 5 amount of sacks over the last 2 years. 

I'd say you're missing my point, which is that even with the rest of the NFL playing "poorly" (which is very debatable), we're still at the bottom. Something has to give.

He may work his ass off, but that doesn't mean he's doing it well. PA is either failing at teaching, or failing at picking the right guys. Either way, he's failing.

(11-20-2017, 03:16 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: And we should really be more focused on why PA is so involved in the draft, there's no way a position coach/assistant head coach can have the time thoroughly scout as well. 
It all comes back to the systemic problems from Mike Brown. 

Do we even know If PA has much input in the draft...  He might get a guy he wanted...  but hes not gonna come out and say oh crap that's not who I wanted.  That wouldn't start things off very good.