People keep bashing the offense for the Bengals problems. And due to problems on the O lone, the offense has definitely not performed up to expectations coming into this season. But to me, the Bengals D is just as culpable for the Bengals current record. We keep hearing about how the Bengals have a top ten D, and that may be the case according to stats.

But our "terrible" offense scored enough points in GB and TEN to win those games. It was our "good" defense that did not finish those games. They gave up 2 last minute game winning drives in those games. If our D had come through in those 2 games the Bengals would be sitting at 6-4 and in the #5 spot for the playoffs right now.

Were we having TOP problems then? I mean they're having a lot of issue with staying off the field (which is both sides of the ball fault). I would love to see what a rested defense can do vs. what we have to put out there basically every game. IMO they perform well enough given the hand they're constantly dealt.

I think both units are to blame. Defense can't get off the field on long third downs (I don't know how many times I've seen 3rd and 8+ converted)...and just to ironically add to it, the offense can't stay on the field and convert third downs.

Offense has issues blocking.

Defense has issues tackling.

(11-21-2017, 07:27 AM)Beaker Wrote: People keep bashing the offense for the Bengals problems. And due to problems on the O lone, the offense has definitely not performed up to expectations coming into this season. But to me, the Bengals D is just as culpable for the Bengals current record. We keep hearing about how the Bengals have a top ten D, and that may be the case according to stats.

But our "terrible" offense scored enough points in GB and TEN to win those games. It was our "good" defense that did not finish those games. They gave up 2 last minute game winning drives in those games. If our D had come through in those 2 games the Bengals would be sitting at 6-4 and in the #5 spot for the playoffs right now.

7 of those points against GB came from WJ3’s pick 6. Just sayin...

Defense gets part of the blame. However T.O.P. Determines what percentage of blame they deserve.

I would say time of possession is everything. What was the stat they posted during the Broncos game like the last 2 games we were literally doubled in top. Our offense constantly goes 3 and out and defense can't help but get worn down. I would imagine our defense would play much better given a lead or an offense that can do more than generate one decent drive a half of that. Offensive line is everything and the Bengals should do everything in their power to get that LT I think his name is Conor and that C from OSU, Billy Price I believe in next years draft. I honestly believe center is the most important position on the line and ours has been getting pushed into the backfield and whiffing on blocks for 4 years. PA needs to go as well but we definitely need and upgrade at those 2 positions and those 2 would solidify our line for years. Cut ties with OG and Fisher now...maybe get a late rounder for them from a team hoping they can develop them.

(11-21-2017, 07:27 AM)Beaker Wrote: People keep bashing the offense for the Bengals problems. And due to problems on the O lone, the offense has definitely not performed up to expectations coming into this season. But to me, the Bengals D is just as culpable for the Bengals current record. We keep hearing about how the Bengals have a top ten D, and that may be the case according to stats.

But our "terrible" offense scored enough points in GB and TEN to win those games. It was our "good" defense that did not finish those games. They gave up 2 last minute game winning drives in those games. If our D had come through in those 2 games the Bengals would be sitting at 6-4 and in the #5 spot for the playoffs right now.

After the Packers loss, aside from the Cleveland "pad your stats" game, the defense has sucked as well.  I don't give them credit for beating Brock Osweiler.  He practically beat his own team himself.  

I think it is more of a mindset.  They see no hope so they are playing just to avoid giving up big plays.  No one hits a bomb on them, but they get nickel and dimed all the way down the field with easy, uncontested receptions and the opponent's rushing attack is easily 4-5 ypc. 

In short, they are playing as poorly as the offense, and that is largely why I don't want Guenther retained as HC.  I remember some pretty shitty Oiler offenses years ago, but that defense would lay the wood for Buddy Ryan.  These guys don't give a shit.  

They will probably pound the Browns, and get a lot of sacks, and a few INTs, only to give up 500 yards of offense a week later on MNF.  

(11-21-2017, 07:28 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Were we having TOP problems then? I mean they're having a lot of issue with staying off the field (which is both sides of the ball fault). I would love to see what a rested defense can do vs. what we have to put out there basically every game. IMO they perform well enough given the hand they're constantly dealt.

(11-21-2017, 07:46 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I think both units are to blame. Defense can't get off the field on long third downs (I don't know how many times I've seen 3rd and 8+ converted)...and just to ironically add to it, the offense can't stay on the field and convert third downs.

Offense has issues blocking.

Defense has issues tackling.

(11-21-2017, 08:25 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Defense gets part of the blame. However T.O.P. Determines what percentage of blame they deserve.

For the last three weeks (the weeks that have seen the worst T.O.P. numbers), the opposition has had long, run the ball down our throats, opening drives/drives in the first quarter/half.  That has nothing to do with lousy offensive production.  The defense isn't gassed their first trip onto the field. Both units are not very good, is the reality.  The defense CANNOT stop the run, we CANNOT run the ball.  Maybe Minter was a bigger asset than some realize.

(11-21-2017, 07:27 AM)Beaker Wrote: People keep bashing the offense for the Bengals problems. And due to problems on the O lone, the offense has definitely not performed up to expectations coming into this season. But to me, the Bengals D is just as culpable for the Bengals current record. We keep hearing about how the Bengals have a top ten D, and that may be the case according to stats.

But our "terrible" offense scored enough points in GB and TEN to win those games. It was our "good" defense that did not finish those games. They gave up 2 last minute game winning drives in those games. If our D had come through in those 2 games the Bengals would be sitting at 6-4 and in the #5 spot for the playoffs right now.

Well ya its a little of both

The Offense 3 and outs aren't helping the defense get any rest and with T.o.P.  the defense is gassed by the end of the game. 

The defense isn't doing themselves any favors with constant penalities and big plays given up on 3rd down to get themselves off the field and the offense more chances.

T.O.P. has to affect the defense, especially later in the game, but I can't lay all the blame on the offense. The defense could help themselves by stringing together 3 and outs of their own.

(11-21-2017, 07:27 AM)Beaker Wrote: People keep bashing the offense for the Bengals problems. And due to problems on the O lone, the offense has definitely not performed up to expectations coming into this season. But to me, the Bengals D is just as culpable for the Bengals current record. We keep hearing about how the Bengals have a top ten D, and that may be the case according to stats.

But our "terrible" offense scored enough points in GB and TEN to win those games. It was our "good" defense that did not finish those games. They gave up 2 last minute game winning drives in those games. If our D had come through in those 2 games the Bengals would be sitting at 6-4 and in the #5 spot for the playoffs right now.

Yeah...I agree with that.

The offense is a major problem. The defense not being able to get off the field on 3rd down is a problem too.

An elite defense doesn't allow game winning scoring drives against the Packers and Titans. Bottom line.

Scoring offense = 29th

Scoring defense = 22nd

Yup the offense is worse.

(11-21-2017, 07:46 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I think both units are to blame. Defense can't get off the field on long third downs (I don't know how many times I've seen 3rd and 8+ converted)...and just to ironically add to it, the offense can't stay on the field and convert third downs.

Offense has issues blocking.

Defense has issues tackling.

This is the key: Third down. Good offenses rarely face third downs at all if you think about it. The Patriots and Steelers usually gain six to eight yards on first down and then convert.

Cincinnati’s defense plays too deep on third down. Opposing receivers seem to run past the first down marker, turn, catch, and there’s a Bengal defender five yards even deeper.

(11-21-2017, 11:20 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: Scoring offense = 29th

Scoring defense = 22nd

Yup the offense is worse.

Man our scoring defense rank has plummeted. We were Top 5 earlier in the year.

If we throw out the 31 points scored against Cleveland, the Cincinnati offense is putting up a putrid 13.67 points per game. I originally thought it was 15.33 points per game until I factored in two touchdowns scored by the defense: William Jackson III and Carlos Dunlap.

The defense is on the field for 80% of the game.

They get worn down every game from our offenses inability to sustain drives.

In my opinion I think the defense has been pretty dang good for some of the situations they are put in.

We realistically could have had a chance to win every game this year if the offense was elevated.

(11-21-2017, 07:46 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Offense has issues blocking.

Defense has issues tackling.

Yup, not exactly a recipe for success.

(11-21-2017, 09:41 AM)whodey4life84 Wrote: I would say time of possession is everything. What was the stat they posted during the Broncos game like the last 2 games we were literally doubled in top. Our offense constantly goes 3 and out and defense can't help but get worn down. I would imagine our defense would play much better given a lead or an offense that can do more than generate one decent drive a half of that. Offensive line is everything and the Bengals should do everything in their power to get that LT I think his name is Conor and that C from OSU, Billy Price I believe in next years draft. I honestly believe center is the most important position on the line and ours has been getting pushed into the backfield and whiffing on blocks for 4 years. PA needs to go as well but we definitely need and upgrade at those 2 positions and those 2 would solidify our line for years. Cut ties with OG and Fisher now...maybe get a late rounder for them from a team hoping they can develop them.

I'm good with drafting Price.  I see about 4 OT's  that consistantly rank.  It's HARD to judge O-line off watching TV.  However..the Consensus tends to narrow it.

We began the year with 3 RB's who were  Rd 2 picks and... Bernard and Hill HAD perfomed. Now? it's rare to even see a 10 yd run.   It's almost a lock we'll get a new OL coach.  Lewis... had a secure job before.. now?  On thin ice.

(11-21-2017, 12:16 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The defense is on the field for 80% of the game.

They get worn down every game from our offenses inability to sustain drives.

In my opinion I think the defense has been pretty dang good for some of the situations they are put in.

We realistically could have had a chance to win every game this year if the offense was elevated.

I think the defense has been pretty decent overall, but they've given up 114 of their 199 point in the first two quarters.

Maybe they're more worn down in the 1st half. 

(11-21-2017, 12:16 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The defense is on the field for 80% of the game.

They get worn down every game from our offenses inability to sustain drives.

In my opinion I think the defense has been pretty dang good for some of the situations they are put in.

We realistically could have had a chance to win every game this year if the offense was elevated.

See on the surface that sounds accurate...but we get more points scored against us in the 1st half than 2nd half defensively.