What has been up with Gio Bernard? He has played in all 10 games this season, yet he only has 49 total touches. 31 carries and 18 receptions. I get that he's not a guy that you would want with 30 touches a game. He's simply not built that way. But 11-14 touches a game has been his workload throughout his career, and he has been effective in this role and has held up pretty well physically. Is he not 100% from last seasons injury? If not, why not IR him as well at this point?

(11-21-2017, 10:42 PM)Shepdawg Wrote: What has been up with Gio Bernard?  He has played in all 10 games this season, yet he only has 49 total touches.  31 carries and 18 receptions.  I get that he's not a guy that you would want with 30 touches a game.  He's simply not built that way.  But 11-14 touches a game has been his workload throughout his career, and he has been effective in this role and has held up pretty well physically.  Is he not 100% from last seasons injury?  If not, why not IR him as well at this point?

Seems like they've anointed Mixon the starter and want to get him touches.

Over the last 6 games, Gio has 13 carries for 20 yards and 10 catches for 70 yards. He went from integral part of the offense to only seeing the field to give Mixon a breather. If this is Gio's permanent role going forward, we need to think long and hard about cutting him after the season.

Gio has the 11th highest salary among RB's in the entire league, and he's down to 3.8 touches over his last 6 games. It's a total waste of cap. There's an easy out in his contract for 2018, but I doubt we use it "cuz loyalty". It's a dumb move to pay him this much though, if he's not going to be a central part of the offense.

I like the guy, but it is what it is.

(11-21-2017, 10:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Over the last 6 games, Gio has 13 carries for 20 yards and 10 catches for 70 yards. He went from integral part of the offense to only seeing the field to give Mixon a breather. If this is Gio's permanent role going forward, we need to think long and hard about cutting him after the season.

Gio has the 11th highest salary among RB's in the entire league, and he's down to 3.8 touches over his last 6 games. It's a total waste of cap. There's an easy out in his contract for 2018, but I doubt we use it "cuz loyalty". It's a dumb move to pay him this much though, if he's not going to be a central part of the offense.

I like the guy, but it is what it is.

I agree with you if he were on any team in the NFL...but we all know that here if they waive him that money will likely not be spent.

But...yeah the team needs to do whatever it can to add 3-4 new lineman in the offseason.

Then maybe 1 new quality starting LB that can cover a TE.

IF we do those things...we should be much better.

(11-21-2017, 11:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I agree with you if he were on any team in the NFL...but we all know that here if they waive him that money will likely not be spent.

But...yeah the team needs to do whatever it can to add 3-4 new lineman in the offseason.

Then maybe 1 new quality starting LB that can cover a TE.

IF we do those things...we should be much better.

Right. Cutting Gio and Michael Johnson (along with half the o-line) should probably be first order of business before free agency...but there's no guarantee Mike uses that extra money to improve the roster. Heck we're sitting on how much cap space right now?

(11-21-2017, 10:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Over the last 6 games, Gio has 13 carries for 20 yards and 10 catches for 70 yards. He went from integral part of the offense to only seeing the field to give Mixon a breather. If this is Gio's permanent role going forward, we need to think long and hard about cutting him after the season.

Gio has the 11th highest salary among RB's in the entire league, and he's down to 3.8 touches over his last 6 games. It's a total waste of cap. There's an easy out in his contract for 2018, but I doubt we use it "cuz loyalty". It's a dumb move to pay him this much though, if he's not going to be a central part of the offense.

I like the guy, but it is what it is.

I get that they have diminished Gio's role on the team.  My question is why?  When Jeremy Hill burst onto the scene, Gio still got his touches.  Mixon has not shown anything compared to the early Jeremy Hill.  Gio agruably has actually outperformed Mixon.  I'm not understanding why they haven't taken a similar approach with Gio and Mixon as they did with Hill and Gio. 

As for cutting him, if Gio doesn't get more touches, he'll likely want out of here anyway.  There are too many teams that could and would use Gio for the 10-14 touches a game he is used to.  

(11-21-2017, 11:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Right. Cutting Gio and Michael Johnson probably should be first order of business before free agency...but there's no guarantee Mike uses that extra money to improve the roster. Heck we're sitting on how much cap space right now?

Yeah after the Burfict extension something like $12 million. They could have gave Zeitler a $10 million contract before he hit free agency and had a couple million left.

They could have waived Jones and/or MJ to create more.

They could have signed John Sullivan at Center for what $1.5 million a year?

Line would be Smith/Zeitler/Sullivan/Boling/Fisher or Ced.

Or instead of Zeitler...giving Ronald Leary $8.5 million a year.

Plus Kirkpatrick has been pretty bad this year. They could have signed Zeitler instead and sat at exactly the cap space as now.

There were definitely ways to improve the team.

(11-21-2017, 11:19 PM)Shepdawg Wrote: I get that they have diminished Gio's role on the team.  My question is why?  When Jeremy Hill burst onto the scene, Gio still got his touches.  Mixon has not shown anything compared to the early Jeremy Hill.  Gio agruably has actually outperformed Mixon.  I'm not understanding why they haven't taken a similar approach with Gio and Mixon as they did with Hill and Gio. 

As for cutting him, if Gio doesn't get more touches, he'll likely want out of here anyway.  There are too many teams that could and would use Gio for the 10-14 touches a game he is used to.  

Your guess is as good as mine. I know Gio hasn't done anything special this year. He's averaged 1.5 YPC over his last 6 games. 3.5 on the year. That's not exactly begging for more carries. Love or hate Mixon, you have to admit he's proven every bit as capable a receiver as Gio, so that negates some of the need for Gio.

I'd like to see more Gio, personally...but if I'm being 100%, Gio isn't to help the run game. I can pretty much guarantee that. The problem is the line. We could hop in a time machine and grab a prime Barry Sanders. It wouldn't matter if he's running behind a messy glob of inept linemen. I'm not sure how many more RB's people need to see before they start realizing that RB isn't the problem.

(11-21-2017, 11:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah after the Burfict extension something like $12 million. They could have gave Zeitler a $10 million contract before he hit free agency and had a couple million left.

They could have waived Jones and/or MJ to create more.

They could have signed John Sullivan at Center for what $1.5 million a year?

Line would be Smith/Zeitler/Sullivan/Boling/Fisher or Ced.

Or instead of Zeitler...giving Ronald Leary $8.5 million a year.

Plus Kirkpatrick has been pretty bad this year. They could have signed Zeitler instead and sat at exactly the cap space as now.

There were definitely ways to improve the team.

Unfortunately, the team's method of avoiding big guaranteed money makes it so they can't be creative even if they wanted to be.

In return for accepting less guaranteed money, the team offers to keep players for the full length of their contracts...even when they vastly under perform their cap figure. Jim O confirmed that this is how they do things.

So instead of cutting or restructuring to make more room to improve the roster, we're stuck with guys like an aging Leon Hall at $9 million, or Gio...or Michael Johnson.

It hurts us in so many ways. The Bengals are the only team who runs things this way. Are we to believe the team with 0 playoff wins in 27 years is the team that is smarter than everyone else? 

Considering the offense has taken the fewest offensive snaps in the league, is anyone surprised that Gio's touches are down? We have had 100 offensive drives this season, averaging 5 plays per drive. If he only gets every third drive as has been the norm the last few seasons, that would only put him on the field for 155 snaps. Does 49 touches on 155 snaps sound low? It actually sounds pretty reasonable to me.

(11-21-2017, 11:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Your guess is as good as mine. I know Gio hasn't done anything special this year. He's averaged 1.5 YPC over his last 6 games. 3.5 on the year. That's not exactly begging for more carries. Love or hate Mixon, you have to admit he's proven every bit as capable a receiver as Gio, so that negates some of the need for Gio.

I'd like to see more Gio, personally...but if I'm being 100%, Gio isn't to help the run game. I can pretty much guarantee that. The problem is the line. We could hop in a time machine and grab a prime Barry Sanders. It wouldn't matter if he's running behind a messy glob of inept linemen. I'm not sure how many more RB's people need to see before they start realizing that RB isn't the problem.


Unfortunately, the team's method of avoiding big guaranteed money makes it so they can't be creative even if they wanted to be.

In return for accepting less guaranteed money, the team offers to keep players for the full length of their contracts...even when they vastly under perform their cap figure. Jim O confirmed that this is how they do things.

So instead of cutting or restructuring to make more room to improve the roster, we're stuck with guys like an aging Leon Hall at $9 million, or Gio...or Michael Johnson.

It hurts us in so many ways. The Bengals are the only team who runs things this way. Are we to believe the team with 0 playoff wins in 27 years is the team that is smarter than everyone else? 

Yes - We haven't won a single playoff game since modern free agency began.

(11-21-2017, 11:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes - We haven't won a single playoff game since modern free agency began.

I don't think that's coincidence.

(11-21-2017, 10:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Over the last 6 games, Gio has 13 carries for 20 yards and 10 catches for 70 yards. He went from integral part of the offense to only seeing the field to give Mixon a breather. If this is Gio's permanent role going forward, we need to think long and hard about cutting him after the season.

Gio has the 11th highest salary among RB's in the entire league, and he's down to 3.8 touches over his last 6 games. It's a total waste of cap. There's an easy out in his contract for 2018, but I doubt we use it "cuz loyalty". It's a dumb move to pay him this much though, if he's not going to be a central part of the offense.

I like the guy, but it is what it is.

To be fair, even with those stats Gio has a better YPC than Mixon on the year. Mixon only has 261 more yards but also has 96 more carries. Has 3 more receiving yards with 5 more receptions. Has 1 more TD than Gio.

Mixon doesn't even average 3 YPC.
Over the last 6 games, Mixon has 75 carries for 234 yards. That's a 3.1 YPC. He's averaging 39 rushing yards a game over that time frame.

Also, fun fact, Andy Dalton has the most rushing yards of ANY of our running backs over the past 6 weeks in the 2nd half.

Our rushing attack is terrible. We rank dead last in rushing yards, YPC, and rushing yards per game. Tied for 31st in rushing TDs with 3.

I saw a stat the other day that the Bengals rank near the bottom in yards until the RB is contacted.

I feel for our running backs. I wouldn't be surprised if Hill went somewhere next year and revitalizes his career. Our scheme and blocking is horrendous

Gio has not been the same since the injury. He seems very timid now and his aggressiveness has diminished greatly. Assuming the coaching staff is smart enough to see this when they are literally blind to every other weakness we have, this could be why his productivity is down. I mean, nothing on GIO because I get it. Some players, regardless of sport, do not come back completely after a traumatic hit that rocked their world.

Has anyone considered the fact that the new OC is in over his head? Mixon is not, and never has been the answer.
Gio should be more involved in the offense. If he were playing for NE,KC,NO, or Pitt,he would be putting up numbers.

(11-22-2017, 07:59 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Has anyone considered the fact that the new OC is in over his head? Mixon is not, and never has been the answer.
Gio should be more involved in the offense. If he were playing for NE,KC,NO, or Pitt,he would be putting up numbers.

Gio has always been one of my favourite players ...seems team focussed and classy to me and you've got to admire how hard he must have worked to get back for this season (though I agree he may not be fully fit).

Up until his injury he was always good for 1000+ all purpose yards and some chunk yard gains in a season. 

For me I have always tended to want him more involved not less, and apart from Hill's rookie season Gio has consistently gotten more YPC.

I don't know what is up. 

My guess is that as the new OC maybe Lazor has been too malleable, influenced by the talk about RB by committee, Mixon deciding to voice his opinion about the number of carries he got (which still rubs me up the wrong way)....

He's a valuable player but Mixon has been anointed the lead guy and there's not a lot of opportunity for Gio...if that continues he should be let go as he is on a good contract and he sure as hell could go back to the 1000+ yards production for another team

Gio is being used more as a blocker this season than anything else, and it's out of necessity. Nothing to do with Gio's health or anything else. They need him to block because Hill couldn't.....

(11-21-2017, 10:42 PM)Shepdawg Wrote: What has been up with Gio Bernard?  He has played in all 10 games this season, yet he only has 49 total touches.  31 carries and 18 receptions.  I get that he's not a guy that you would want with 30 touches a game.  He's simply not built that way.  But 11-14 touches a game has been his workload throughout his career, and he has been effective in this role and has held up pretty well physically.  Is he not 100% from last seasons injury?  If not, why not IR him as well at this point?

We can't put Gio and Mixon in the backfield together for more than two plays because that is all that was drawn up in the offseason.  We can't make in-season adjustments because our coaches are SOOOO BUSY running around doing paperwork for the game plan that is destined to fail.  

We simply have to let Gio rot on the bench, despite being at least our third best playmaker on offense because we just don't have time to teach him the route tree and have him line up as a receiver for reverses, etc.

Using Gio in space with a LB forced to cover him is way too creative and time consuming for this coaching staff. 

WAIT!  We should complain about the owner, not the coaches, because all he and his leadership team did was sign him to an extension and allow him to be on the roster.  

Does everyone now see why this entire coaching staff has to go?  

Gruden or Hue would have this offense with the same personnel in the top 10 in the league.  It isn't the talent, it is the wasting of the talent with horribly inadequate coaching schematics and instruction.  We saw the players start to throw helmets and speak openly about problems within the game plan.  It is coming again soon.  If they lose to Cleveland, get ready for more helmets to fly.  

 

Gio is still in there playing on 3rd down and in the 2 minute offense...Thing is he's being used more in pass protection cuz you know the offensive line....

(11-22-2017, 07:59 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Has anyone considered the fact that the new OC is in over his head? Mixon is not, and never has been the answer.
Gio should be more involved in the offense. If he were playing for NE,KC,NO, or Pitt,he would be putting up numbers.

So would Mixon. The problem with our offense is the line, not the skill players. 

(11-21-2017, 11:41 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Considering the offense has taken the fewest offensive snaps in the league, is anyone surprised that Gio's touches are down?  We have had 100 offensive drives this season, averaging 5 plays per drive.  If he only gets every third drive  as has been the norm the last few seasons, that would only put him on the field for 155 snaps. Does 49 touches on 155 snaps sound low?  It actually sounds pretty reasonable to me.

This. Thank you! Was looking to see if anyone else posted about this before I made my own. Apparently everyone else wanted to ignore this though just to get their opinion out.