I don't think Andy is average at best; I just think he's average and that's not always a bad thing.

(12-03-2017, 01:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't think Andy is average at best; I just think he's average and that's not always a bad thing.

It is if the name of the game is winning a Super Bowl.

check out Case Keenam speaking of career years. he looks amazing the way he stays in the pocket n goes to his 3rd n 4th option..

(12-03-2017, 05:12 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: check out Case Keenam speaking of career years.  he looks amazing the way he stays in the pocket n goes to his 3rd n 4th option..

These are all things that can easily be observed if you've been watching football for a while.  Dalton fans either do not understand  these intangibles or just choose to ignore it. 

And look I'm not a fan of Keenam but things like staying in the pocket, going to ur second and third reads are essential if you want to ever be a top 10 QB. Dalton throughout most of his career fails at these critical aspects. 

(12-03-2017, 05:06 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: It is if the name of the game is winning a Super Bowl.

Lesser QBs have hoisted the Lombardi. Given they are few and far between, but they are there. I'm not sure if I'm ready to start from scratch. Andy still has one more team friendly deal left on his contract. 

WTS, I'd like to see us bring in a mid-round QB and possibly see a little more of AJM once/if we are eliminated from playoff consideration.  

(12-03-2017, 06:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Lesser QBs have hoisted the Lombardi. Given they are few and far between, but they are there. I'm not sure if I'm ready to start from scratch. Andy still has one more team friendly deal left on his contract. 

WTS, I'd like to see us bring in a mid-round QB and possibly see a little more of AJM once/if we are eliminated from playoff consideration.  

Dalton is good enough to win the Super Bowl...that said the Bengals management will likely never put together the right mix of roster and coaches to make that happen.

Until we start using free agency to shore up weak positions...we won't win a SB.

(12-03-2017, 07:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dalton is good enough to win the Super Bowl...that said the Bengals management will likely never put together the right mix of roster and coaches to make that happen.

Until we start using free agency to shore up weak positions...we won't win a SB.

Mason Foster but he would probably fit best in the middle. The big name guy I'd like to see them go after is Jimmy Graham but so will alot of other teams. Offensive linemen uhh Dakota Dozier maybe...

(12-03-2017, 06:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Lesser QBs have hoisted the Lombardi. Given they are few and far between, but they are there. I'm not sure if I'm ready to start from scratch. Andy still has one more team friendly deal left on his contract. 

WTS, I'd like to see us bring in a mid-round QB and possibly see a little more of AJM once/if we are eliminated from playoff consideration.  

Sure lesser QBs have won the SB (extremely rare) but the most likely scenario and one that is sustainable is for us to get a top 10 QB. We cannot be content with Dalton.

(12-03-2017, 09:12 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Sure lesser QBs have won the SB (extremely rare) but the most likely scenario and one that is sustainable is for us to get a top 10 QB. We cannot be content with Dalton.

If it were that easy, there wouldn't be at least half the league looking for the same thing. Dalton is much better than he's given credit for from a lot of fans. No, he's not top 10, but he's good enough to win with.

As for the "no QB would succeed in Cincinnati" bit, I truly believe that. Ignore the OLine, lack of running game, or anything else. The simple fact that Mike Brown is the owner/GM is the biggest handcuff in professional sports. People can be blind and ***** about Andy Dalton all they want, Baker, Barrett, Jackson, Jesus Christ himself is not going to be able to overcome the ownership and attitude that infects this team.

(12-03-2017, 09:17 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: If it were that easy, there wouldn't be at least half the league looking for the same thing. Dalton is much better than he's given credit for from a lot of fans. No, he's not top 10, but he's good enough to win with.

As for the "no QB would succeed in Cincinnati" bit, I truly believe that. Ignore the OLine, lack of running game, or anything else. The simple fact that Mike Brown is the owner/GM is the biggest handcuff in professional sports. People can be blind and ***** about Andy Dalton all they want, Baker, Barrett, Jackson, Jesus Christ himself is not going to be able to overcome the ownership and attitude that infects this team.

I feel the same way with Marvin too. It's hard to succeed here.

IF Tom Brady was drafted here...he's probably out of the league after 3-4 years.

(11-30-2017, 03:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yeah, the QBR metric is a horrible way to measure QBs. 

Why? Looking at the current QBRs, they seem to align well to the results we see on the field.

(12-03-2017, 09:17 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: If it were that easy, there wouldn't be at least half the league looking for the same thing. Dalton is much better than he's given credit for from a lot of fans. No, he's not top 10, but he's good enough to win with.

As for the "no QB would succeed in Cincinnati" bit, I truly believe that. Ignore the OLine, lack of running game, or anything else. The simple fact that Mike Brown is the owner/GM is the biggest handcuff in professional sports. People can be blind and ***** about Andy Dalton all they want, Baker, Barrett, Jackson, Jesus ***** Christ himself is not going to be able to overcome the ownership and attitude that infects this team.

I agree with the first paragraph

I disagree with the second paragraph. It is disrespectful to the elite QBs in the league to suggest they cannot do it simply because Andy cannot do it. I think Russel Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, ect.. might  do OK here. 

(12-03-2017, 09:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel the same way with Marvin too. It's hard to succeed here.

IF Tom Brady was drafted here...he's probably out of the league after 3-4 years.

Absurd statement.

Well sadly Lewis has coached his final season in Cincy.

(12-03-2017, 09:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel the same way with Marvin too. It's hard to succeed here.

IF Tom Brady was drafted here...he's probably out of the league after 3-4 years.

(12-04-2017, 01:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Absurd statement.

I've had to deal with comments like this for years. People actually think Marvin couldn't win with a QB like Rodgers or Brady. It's insane!

Look I want Marvin fired just as much as the next man but to what extend does deflecting blame off Dalton and putting it entirely on Marvin go?!

(12-03-2017, 11:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree with the first paragraph

I disagree with the second paragraph. It is disrespectful to the elite QBs in the league to suggest they cannot do it simply because Andy cannot do it. I think Russel Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, ect.. might  do OK here. 

I'm not saying they can't do it because Dalton can't do it. I'm saying no one can do it because of Mike Brown. He doesn't do everything he can to make this team a winner. I'm not saying the elite QBs in the league couldn't have won a playoff game by now. I just don't think any of them would've brought a title to Cincinnati. I'm saying that because of our horrendous owner/GM and how he does things.

(12-04-2017, 03:06 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I've had to deal with comments like this for years. People actually think Marvin couldn't win with a QB like Rodgers or Brady. It's insane!

Look I want Marvin fired just as much as the next man but to what extend does deflecting blame off Dalton and putting it entirely on Marvin go?!

So you think IF Brady was drafted by the Bengals in 2000 that he turns into a HOF QB? That's before Marvin got here.

(12-04-2017, 02:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So you think IF Brady was drafted by the Bengals in 2000 that he turns into a HOF QB? That's before Marvin got here.

Now you’re moving the goalposts. You said he’d be out of the league in 3-4 years. Which I maintain, is ridiculous.

(12-04-2017, 02:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Now you’re moving the goalposts. You said he’d be out of the league in 3-4 years. Which I maintain, is ridiculous.

IF Brady were drafted by the Bengals in 2000 as a 6th Round pick...I believe he never develops and is out of the league.

Even if you want to throw the word "average" at Dalton, that would imply 16th. You want to know who else would be right there with him in that middle tier?

Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Matt Stafford
Alex Smith
Derek Carr
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Carson Palmer

That's a lot of guys you can't win a SB with, apparently. I honestly can't believe anyone could be watching the same franchise I have for the last 25 years and come to the conclusion that we're an elite QB away. It's laughable. This franchise is a joke. They don't spend to cap, they don't value linemen (particularly on the interior), they haven't been able to run the football well for over a dozen years, and our head coach has a horrific track record in big games...with 2 different franchise QB's who have played well otherwise.

But yeah, lets just hope we stumble on an Aaron Rodgers or a Tom Brady, because those are so easy to find, and I'm sure Marvin Lewis and his merry band of tenured bums will get the most out of any talented QB. We all should know better. You think we would nurture a young QB like Pittsburgh did when they helped young Ben with an elite run game and defense? You think we'd bring in some great offensive minds like the Eagles did with Wentz? Would we build up the line like Dallas did for Dak? Heck no. None of this would happen.

It's a minor miracle that Dalton is having a good season with the 32nd ranked run game, poor blocking and 1 good receiver. Changed coordinators in week 3. To me, this is his most impressive season, and we're blaming him for the mess we're in? It defies all logic. People keep talking about how an elite QB could overcome all our problems. Welp, Dalton has a 104.1 rating, 18 TDs to 4 INTs since the coordinator switch. What more is he supposed to do?