I'm a bit torn. This team really has a tendency to go 8-8, and end up missing the playoffs, but get a middling draft pick.

I know it isn't best to WANT your team to lose, but I really did. Because now I fear Lewis is signed again, we get a pick around 12-16 range, and now we are talking playoffs again. I'm excited for some of the young talent we have, but I'm a bit tired of such mediocrity.

So how do you feel? I still do enjoy seeing this team do good obviously, and I watch them every single week. But I wonder if we should've blown it up to make room for the possibility of better things in the future.

I think I've also changed my mind on Dalton. I was 50/50 on him before, and probably a bit more negative. But I think he's good enough to keep around and try to build some talent, and see what he can do if we get enough talent around him. I would rather have a world-beater at QB (Wentz, Wilson, Watson, etc), but they aren't easy to find.

Well...we've beaten a 3-9 team in Denver and an 0-12 Cleveland team...and fans are all lathered up thinking it's a great sign.

I think Pittsburgh probably beats us soundly. I think we see our offense get relatively shut down.

I think our defense looks ok...but Bell runs on us pretty well.

I'd give us about a 30% chance of a win.

(12-04-2017, 02:24 PM)thillan Wrote: I'm a bit torn. This team really has a tendency to go 8-8, and end up missing the playoffs, but get a middling draft pick.

I know it isn't best to WANT your team to lose, but I really did. Because now I fear Lewis is signed again, we get a pick around 12-16 range, and now we are talking playoffs again. I'm excited for some of the young talent we have, but I'm a bit tired of such mediocrity.

So how do you feel? I still do enjoy seeing this team do good obviously, and I watch them every single week. But I wonder if we should've blown it up to make room for the possibility of better things in the future.

I think I've also changed my mind on Dalton. I was 50/50 on him before, and probably a bit more negative. But I think he's good enough to keep around and try to build some talent, and see what he can do if we get enough talent around him. I would rather have a world-beater at QB (Wentz, Wilson, Watson, etc), but they aren't easy to find.

I want a do-over. But, Mikey will only so a partial fix -- if anything at all. I resent that approach as I would if my surgeon only removed a small part of a cancerous tumor because it would be easier and cheaper.

(12-04-2017, 02:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...we've beaten a 3-9 team in Denver and an 0-12 Cleveland team...and fans are all lathered up thinking it's a great sign.

I think Pittsburgh probably beats us soundly. I think we see our offense get relatively shut down.

I think our defense looks ok...but Bell runs on us pretty well.

I'd give us about a 30% chance of a win.

Yeah I think the Denver win gave people more hope, just because it's Denver and they have a history. But they are worse than we are this year.

Agree, I was talking more about the overall feel of this season though. This just feels even MORE mediocre than our usual 8-8 team, because of how poor the entire AFC is this year.

(12-04-2017, 02:31 PM)thillan Wrote: Yeah I think the Denver win gave people more hope, just because it's Denver and they have a history. But they are worse than we are this year.

Agree, I was talking more about the overall feel of this season though. This just feels even MORE mediocre than our usual 8-8 team, because of how poor the entire AFC is this year.

Yeah the AFC is really bad which should boost our record.

The key to the rest of the year is our run game. IF we can do what we saw against Cleveland...we could win 3 maybe 4 more games. IF not...you'll see 6-10 or 7-9.

The long term betterment of the team is for us to lose now. Lazor is not a good OC, Marvin may be gone already but we need to know it. The OL needs to be trainwreck without anyone getting hurt so that becomes more glaring. Being an average, middling team prevents greatness right now with this team

(12-04-2017, 02:24 PM)thillan Wrote: I'm a bit torn. This team really has a tendency to go 8-8, and end up missing the playoffs, but get a middling draft pick.

I know it isn't best to WANT your team to lose, but I really did. Because now I fear Lewis is signed again, we get a pick around 12-16 range, and now we are talking playoffs again. I'm excited for some of the young talent we have, but I'm a bit tired of such mediocrity.

So how do you feel? I still do enjoy seeing this team do good obviously, and I watch them every single week. But I wonder if we should've blown it up to make room for the possibility of better things in the future.

I think I've also changed my mind on Dalton. I was 50/50 on him before, and probably a bit more negative. But I think he's good enough to keep around and try to build some talent, and see what he can do if we get enough talent around him. I would rather have a world-beater at QB (Wentz, Wilson, Watson, etc), but they aren't easy to find.

I still believe this team likely goes 6-10 with a win over the Bears and 7-9 at best with a win over either Detroit or Baltimore.

Primetime vs the Steelers, its not going to be pretty.

(12-04-2017, 02:34 PM)eoxyod Wrote: The long term betterment of the team is for us to lose now. Lazor is not a good OC, Marvin may be gone already but we need to know it. The OL needs to be trainwreck without anyone getting hurt so that becomes more glaring. Being an average, middling team prevents greatness right now with this team

Yeah...IF we can somehow make the playoffs at 8-8 I'd always take that...but we're not close to competing for a Super Bowl which is the goal.

We need to upgrade atleast 3-4 positions to even start to talk about a Super Bowl...and realistically 5-6.

We need at minimum 4 new offensive lineman or guys that take massive steps forward between now and next year.

We need a WR2 to step up. Maybe it's Ross. No one knows.

We may need a TE. Kroft has been decent. Maybe he's the answer?

We need 2 new starting LB's.

We may need a new DT next to Atkins or Billings to take a major step forward.

(12-04-2017, 02:36 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Primetime vs the Steelers, its not going to be pretty.

It will be a beat down with boogaloo celebrations in the endzones and on the sidelines throughout the game.

Save yourself some misery and don't watch!!

We will get absolutely destroyed. Thinking 45-7... Maybe 45-10 if we're lucky.

Based on past history, we're going to be woefully unprepared, get curb stomped in the second half, make few (if any) adjustments, Marvin will clap and still have a job tomorrow morning.

I feel pretty damn good! I was able to complete all of the work that was supposed to take most of the day, by lunch.

Oh, you mean how do I feel about the game tonight? Doubtful.

(12-04-2017, 02:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...we've beaten a 3-9 team in Denver and an 0-12 Cleveland team...and fans are all lathered up thinking it's a great sign.

I think Pittsburgh probably beats us soundly. I think we see our offense get relatively shut down.

I think our defense looks ok...but Bell runs on us pretty well.

I'd give us about a 30% chance of a win.

A win is a win in the NFL, but it is quite telling that the two teams we've beaten recently are currently on a combined 20-game losing streak.  Ouch.

(12-04-2017, 02:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...IF we can somehow make the playoffs at 8-8 I'd always take that...but we're not close to competing for a Super Bowl which is the goal.

We need to upgrade atleast 3-4 positions to even start to talk about a Super Bowl...and realistically 5-6.

We need at minimum 4 new offensive lineman or guys that take massive steps forward between now and next year.

We need a WR2 to step up. Maybe it's Ross. No one knows.

We may need a TE. Kroft has been decent. Maybe he's the answer?

We need 2 new starting LB's.

We may need a new DT next to Atkins or Billings to take a major step forward.

It's not even necessarily all that though (Besides the fact we need an OL). Every team has at least 2 weaknesses. But we need coaching that can help mask and scheme around that which we don't have. It's why I liked Hue (Although he's a bad HC which took me too long to fully realize). But as an OC he made sure Andy's strengths were always on display. He spread out the offense, brought out formations that allowed presnap reads to be easier because Andy isn't as great post-snap. 

Like if Andy didn't get hurt and we had one more year of Zim for 2015, I think we would have steamrolled through the playoffs

(12-04-2017, 02:53 PM)eoxyod Wrote: It's not even necessarily all that though (Besides the fact we need an OL). Every team has at least 2 weaknesses. But we need coaching that can help mask and scheme around that which we don't have. It's why I liked Hue (Although he's a bad HC which took me too long to fully realize). But as an OC he made sure Andy's strengths were always on display. He spread out the offense, brought out formations that allowed presnap reads to be easier because Andy isn't as great post-snap. 

Like if Andy didn't get hurt and we had one more year of Zim for 2015, I think we would have steamrolled through the playoffs

Oh I realize that we likely will never have all Good+ starters.

At what point do we look at Hue in Cleveland and just say that he had really good personnel on the Bengals offense and that he really wasn't a great coach? Marvin Jones looks pretty awesome for the Lions. Stafford just throws up deep balls and Jones goes and gets them.

Sanu is good. Our line was pretty good. We had Green and a mostly healthy Eifert.

It'll be all over after tonight. The primetime beatdown will end Marvins career with the Bengals. This loss should (finally) do it.

He won't get fired tomorrow, but it will mark the end of his time here. He's no longer able to beat the Steelers. Stale.

(12-04-2017, 02:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Oh I realize that we likely will never have all Good+ starters.

At what point do we look at Hue in Cleveland and just say that he had really good personnel on the Bengals offense and that he really wasn't a great coach? Marvin Jones looks pretty awesome for the Lions. Stafford just throws up deep balls and Jones goes and gets them.

Sanu is good. Our line was pretty good. We had Green and a mostly healthy Eifert.

He is probably one of the better talent developing coaches in the league. If you look throughout his various tenures as a coach he has turned talent into great players, and below average talent into average production. He had an offense that worked PERFECTLY with our personnel. Obviously we lost players, but you could still see the drop off in the proceeding year with Zampese

Honestly, I think I’ve about reached the end of my rope with this team. I’ll stick around here for the banter. I’ll follow the draft. I’ll still hope they win. But if I don’t see some changes in how this team is run I don’t know that I’ll keep wasting 3 plus hours on them every week next year.


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(12-04-2017, 03:06 PM)jj22 Wrote: It'll be all over after tonight. The primetime beatdown will end Marvins career with the Bengals. This loss should (finally) do it.

He won't get fired tomorrow, but it will mark the end of his time here. He's no longer able to beat the Steelers. Stale.

He really never was 

I don't know his overall record against Pittsburgh, but I do know that he's their b**ch. He's a b**ch to his hometown team, a team that he grew up a diehard fan of. Who would have thought?

(And no, I don't think Marv has intentionally struggled against Pittsburgh, but I think subconsciously it affects him)

Anyway, I agree. After the inevitable ass-kicking tonight, it will essentially end our playoff chances and thus, Marvin's tenure as bengals coach.

Just 5 more games, just 5 more games, just 5 more games... 

(12-04-2017, 02:24 PM)thillan Wrote: I'm a bit torn. This team really has a tendency to go 8-8, and end up missing the playoffs, but get a middling draft pick.

I know it isn't best to WANT your team to lose, but I really did. Because now I fear Lewis is signed again, we get a pick around 12-16 range, and now we are talking playoffs again. I'm excited for some of the young talent we have, but I'm a bit tired of such mediocrity.

So how do you feel? I still do enjoy seeing this team do good obviously, and I watch them every single week. But I wonder if we should've blown it up to make room for the possibility of better things in the future.

I think I've also changed my mind on Dalton. I was 50/50 on him before, and probably a bit more negative. But I think he's good enough to keep around and try to build some talent, and see what he can do if we get enough talent around him. I would rather have a world-beater at QB (Wentz, Wilson, Watson, etc), but they aren't easy to find.

I'd Say if we lose this game its probly best to lose out the rest of the way... 

But if we win we still have a realistic shot at the playoffs...

So Win now and Win big and keep fighting till January.


Middle to late first rounder is fine with me. we have gotten pretty good production from players drafted in that range

where as top 5 sometimes are hit or miss.   (A Smith vs AJ Green)