Are we comfortable with Ogbuehi and Smith as our starting tackles next year?

At first, my thinking was we needed to basically scrap the entire offensive line and start over during the off season. Ogbuehi was getting destroyed, Fisher was being embarrassed on a weekly basis and Smith is older and may not be a future player for us, depending on what happens in the off season.

But, I must say, they don't appear to be as awful as they were in the beginning of the season. Has Ogbuehi finally settled in? Or is it just a streak of 3 good games?

Keep in mind, I'm only judging with my eyes. I don't have PFF data to back this feeling up. I just know that, in the last few games, our Oline has held up relatively well in pass protection. And they've improved in run blocking as well!

Giving up 6 sacks in 4 games vs Tennessee, Denver, Cleveland and Pittsburgh is not bad at all.

And eclipsing 100 yards rushing and 5 ypc in each of the last 2 games against good run defense teams (No. 6 and No. 8 total rushing defense for Cleveland and Pittsburgh) is nothing to scoff at either.

I think we definitely need to upgrade the interior of our line, but I'm actually not AS worried about the tackles as I was early on in the season.

Am I crazy? Or are they improving?

(12-06-2017, 10:19 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Are we comfortable with Ogbuehi and Smith as our starting tackles next year?

At first, my thinking was we needed to basically scrap the entire offensive line and start over during the off season. Ogbuehi was getting destroyed, Fisher was being embarrassed on a weekly basis and Smith is older and may not be a future player for us, depending on what happens in the off season.

But, I must say, they don't appear to be as awful as they were in the beginning of the season. Has Ogbuehi finally settled in? Or is it just a streak of 3 good games?

Keep in mind, I'm only judging with my eyes. I don't have PFF data to back this feeling up. I just know that, in the last few games, our Oline has held up relatively well in pass protection. And they've improved in run blocking as well!

Giving up 6 sacks in 4 games vs Tennessee, Denver, Cleveland and Pittsburgh is not bad at all.

And eclipsing 100 yards rushing and 5 ypc in each of the last 2 games against good run defense teams (No. 6 and No. 8 total rushing defense for Cleveland and Pittsburgh) is nothing to scoff at either.

I think we definitely need to upgrade the interior of our line, but I'm actually not AS worried about the tackles as I was early on in the season.

Am I crazy? Or are they improving?

I don't have the premium PFF because I don't want to pay so I can't see game-by-game, but Ogbuehi's season rating is 39.4, which is the #72 OT.
Andre is 51.1, which is #54 OT.

For me, the ONLY reason I could see not attempting to upgrade OT in the offseason is because the FA crop looks to suck and this draft doesn't look to have any slam dunk LT prospects. With that said, I think there are some really good college LTs that do struggle with speed pass rushers and should be able to be very good RTs if they can't stick at LT in the NFL.

NO.... we need upgrades badly. I didn't think they played that bad in the Pittsburgh game until close to the end when the Stealers realized they might lose and started hitting them with blitzes, then they fell apart.

I don't see us signing any free agent tackles...so it would be drafting McGlinchey who struggles with speed rushers or some other OT.

I've identified a Center in free agency and a Guard that I'd target. IF we could atleast upgrade 2 positions that goes a long way towards stabilizing the line.

Honestly, I don't see us bringing in 4 new starters.

(12-06-2017, 11:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't see us signing any free agent tackles...so it would be drafting McGlinchey who struggles with speed rushers or some other OT.

I've identified a Center in free agency and a Guard that I'd target. IF we could atleast upgrade 2 positions that goes a long way towards stabilizing the line.

Honestly, I don't see us bringing in 4 new starters.

Are you considering Andre Smith being re-signed? I think it's feasible to see Smith re-signed.

Much will depend upon our coaching situation next year but I do think they will give Jake Fisher another chance at least long enough to see if this year's performance was due to talent and skills issue or due to his heart condition

I would be okay with Smith if it was for short-term (like we drafted a rookie RT and want to ease him in or Fisher). But Og and Bodine need replaced BADLY. Keep 'em around for backups, maybe, but we need a new LT and C, not to mention the other positions.

EDIT: forgot about Fisher. Keep Smith until we know whether or not Fisher is the answer at RT and/or while we look for a new RT

(12-06-2017, 11:37 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Are you considering Andre Smith being re-signed? I think it's feasible to see Smith re-signed.

I don't consider him an external free agent.

As has been mentioned, he's graded out as Poor most of the year.

(12-06-2017, 11:45 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't consider him an external free agent.

As has been mentioned, he's graded out as Poor most of the year.

I consider FA to include internal FAs too, not just external.

And while yes, Andre Smith has been performing poorly, he's still performed better than the other OTs on the roster and it will be extremely difficult to replace two starting OTs in the same year. And I'd much rather see Ogbuehi replaced first and then have Andre starting on the other side for at least 2018.

No.

F No

Absolutely not.

We make jokes about this every year, but I'd be perfectly content if half our draft picks were linemen. Can't value it enough. That is, of course, provided that a new head coach comes in and actually knows how to utilize our wide receiver and running back corps, because Marvin sure as shit can't do that.

The line has seemed to get better. With that said I think we see one Tackle drafted and it is to be the swing tackle next year and the possible replacement for Ced or Fisher in the future if they regress. I think the technique changes have actually helped and maybe we are going to keep improving. I think a Center at some in the 2nd or 3rd is needed. I'd like to see one more year out of Hopkins and if not see what Westerman has.

To me the biggest thing is how do we end the year. We play some good defensive lines and I'll be curious how they hold up after doing pretty well the last couple weeks.

While most fans are in agreement that the OLine needs an overhaul, none of us get to make those decisions. At best, the team will rely on the draft for OLine help. Regardless of who the head coach is next year, it is highly unlikely that Mike Brown is suddenly going to change his free agency approach. So the chances of us bringing in a free agent upgrade is incredibly slim.

I'll feel better about drafting OLine help if Alexander the Great is gone and no longer a part of the coaching staff. As long as he is around and making the decisions on the OLineman we draft, I would expect more swings and misses.

first three picks need to be OT, center and guard.

If Og and Fisher beat out the new guys than fine.


Maybe Og and Fisher will improve with a younger more up to date o line coach.

It would also be nice if they spent money on a quality free agent for one of these positions.

A new coach with control might do that.

(12-06-2017, 12:36 PM)bengals67 Wrote: first three picks need to be OT, center and guard.

If Og and Fisher beat out the new guys than fine.


Maybe Og and Fisher will improve with a younger more up to date o line coach.

It would also be nice if they spent money on a quality free agent for one of these positions.

A new coach with control might do that.

While I can understand this approach, that would mean a defensive player isn't selected until at least pick 100 or so.
And as we've seen, the defense has been more of a bend-don't-break this year.
They don't get much interior pressure from the DL outside of Atkins, MJ is old and bad and likely won't be re-signed after his contract is up in 2018 (IMO should be cut after this year anyway). LBs could use an upgrade next to Burfict and safety could use an elite playmaker although Iloka and Williams are serviceable.

Personally, I'd like to see a defensive player selected within the first two rounds and then still three OL selected within the first four rounds. It's expected the Bengals will get a third-round comp pick for Zeitler, so that should help.

We have 5 more games to evaluate progress. That will alone make watching the games a little interesting. They need more reps. The whole rotation plan was the dumbest thing ever, and the improved play since they quit it proves that.. another example of dumb coaching decisions.

Minnesota overhauled their oline in one off-season..we can do the same

(12-06-2017, 10:33 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't have the premium PFF because I don't want to pay so I can't see game-by-game, but Ogbuehi's season rating is 39.4, which is the #72 OT.
Andre is 51.1, which is #54 OT.

For me, the ONLY reason I could see not attempting to upgrade OT in the offseason is because the FA crop looks to suck and this draft doesn't look to have any slam dunk LT prospects. With that said, I think there are some really good college LTs that do struggle with speed pass rushers and should be able to be very good RTs if they can't stick at LT in the NFL.

If you are ok with so-so play at their absolute best then you'll keep them.

If you want a good OL you'll replace them.

We won't even bother looking for a starting OT in free agency. The best you can hope for out of this front office is a draft pick, probably in the later rounds.

(12-06-2017, 12:50 PM)Brimey Wrote: We have 5 more games to evaluate progress. That will alone make watching the games a little interesting. They need more reps. The whole rotation plan was the dumbest thing ever, and the improved play since they quit it proves that.. another example of dumb coaching decisions.

Four