(12-05-2017, 11:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well professor I asked if that was correct and was presented with a falsehood.
Shazier hit him in the side. Nowhere near the small of the back.
But with his helmet, as I agreed he is wont to do.
I seem to remember being taught back in pee-wee to see what you are tackling. No idea why it is Shazier can't seem to avoid using the crown of his helmet like a weapon. I'll say it again, he is just like Burfict. They both have talent and could be great players just need to knock off the stupid un-needed stuff and neither seems willing to do it.
Burfict gets suspensions and fines. Shazier was given a pass by the league for everything he does but the universe stepped in and said, knock it off.
(12-06-2017, 03:58 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Only thing I defended was Iloka's hit on Brown, and that is simply because of the mentality of "you take out our leader, we take out yours." I have no issue with that, except that Iloka failed to do the job and Brown got up.
I agree. It's no different than a baseball team hitting the opposing team's star player and then the other team retaliates when they're up pitching. I don't agree with Brown saying it's karma. You're professionals, if a team is playing dirty that doesn't mean you should. If you do, you lose all ability to complain and call them dirty.
(12-06-2017, 04:03 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I seem to remember being taught back in pee-wee to see what you are tackling. No idea why it is Shazier can't seem to avoid using the crown of his helmet like a weapon.
See this where I separate from you. Bad form isn't using his helmet like a weapon. At least not in my eyes. Now if he dives on a pile and hits a guy who already down? That is intent to injure using a weapon. what happened was a stupid/bad move while making a tackle on a guy who was making a move.
(12-06-2017, 04:03 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I'll say it again, he is just like Burfict. They both have talent and could be great players just need to knock off the stupid un-needed stuff and neither seems willing to do it.
Burfict does stuff AFTER the play. He does stuff away from the play. He does stuff that legitimately hurts the team. There is no comparison.
(12-06-2017, 04:03 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Burfict gets suspensions and fines. Shazier was given a pass by the league for everything he does but the universe stepped in and said, knock it off.
Again Burfict brought the attention on himself for the stuff he does outside the whistles. That's different.
I think what we often forget when we look at these sorts of plays is the biology of it all. Yeah, the way the head gets lowered isn't good tackling form. We all know that and we know that leading with the crown can cause injury to both the hitter and the hittee. The issue is that as a player you fight against the natural urge to brace for impact. It's a natural reaction to start to curl up when that impact is coming, so in order to keep that good form, you have to fight that. All of this in a split second. So when you don't focus on it as well and let that movement take over, it starts but is too late. You're halfway there, which is putting you in a much worse position.
This is why we see receivers essentially putting their heads in harm's way. It's why we see tacklers lowering their heads as they go in for the hit. Yeah, this isn't the answer all of the time, but a lot of what we see on the field that leads to senseless injuries is a result of our bodies' natural reactions to impending impact. Fighting nature is hard.
(12-06-2017, 09:55 AM)GMDino Wrote: See this where I separate from you. Bad form isn't using his helmet like a weapon. At least not in my eyes. Now if he dives on a pile and hits a guy who already down? That is intent to injure using a weapon. what happened was a stupid/bad move while making a tackle on a guy who was making a move.
Burfict does stuff AFTER the play. He does stuff away from the play. He does stuff that legitimately hurts the team. There is no comparison.
Again Burfict brought the attention on himself for the stuff he does outside the whistles. That's different.
The first season, Burfict did stupid stuff away from the play and I have said that already in this thread.
Since the ball taps and ankle twists however, there is an absolute comparison. Shazier spears Gio, intent to injury 100%, no other reason to hit like that. While Gio is laid out, Shazier dances at midfield and laughs and giggles.
Shazier tries to maim another player, hurts himself thankfully instead of someone else. No one danced, no one acted like an ass clown, but they had every right too.
Trade jersey on the two guys and one would be a hard nosed guy in pitt the other the dirty guy from Ohio State playing in Cincinnati. The narrative is what it is, and they are both dirty rather you like it or not.
(12-06-2017, 09:55 AM)GMDino Wrote: See this where I separate from you. Bad form isn't using his helmet like a weapon. At least not in my eyes. Now if he dives on a pile and hits a guy who already down? That is intent to injure using a weapon. what happened was a stupid/bad move while making a tackle on a guy who was making a move.
Burfict does stuff AFTER the play. He does stuff away from the play. He does stuff that legitimately hurts the team. There is no comparison.
Again Burfict brought the attention on himself for the stuff he does outside the whistles. That's different.
You're one of those Steelers fans that are so full of shit, you've become desensitized to the smell.
And there's a lot of you out there. Hypocritical, bullshit-spewing, clueless, bandwagon, wanna-be-but-can't tough guys.
It makes me chuckle a bit.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(12-06-2017, 01:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think what we often forget when we look at these sorts of plays is the biology of it all. Yeah, the way the head gets lowered isn't good tackling form. We all know that and we know that leading with the crown can cause injury to both the hitter and the hittee. The issue is that as a player you fight against the natural urge to brace for impact. It's a natural reaction to start to curl up when that impact is coming, so in order to keep that good form, you have to fight that. All of this in a split second. So when you don't focus on it as well and let that movement take over, it starts but is too late. You're halfway there, which is putting you in a much worse position.
This is why we see receivers essentially putting their heads in harm's way. It's why we see tacklers lowering their heads as they go in for the hit. Yeah, this isn't the answer all of the time, but a lot of what we see on the field that leads to senseless injuries is a result of our bodies' natural reactions to impending impact. Fighting nature is hard.
Possibly. Sometimes. In the average Steeelers player's case, it's either taught or simply acquired due to the supposed tough nature of the average Steelers player, i.e., the culture over the last 40 years or so. Go watch any highlight video of Ryan Shazier from His OSU days. Dude knew how to tackle properly. Face up, head to the side. I watched 2 or 3 last night and there was only one instance, one, of him lowering his head and striking an opponent with the top of his helmet, and that was a RB coming through the middle of the LOS.
Fact of the matter is, your diagnosis aside, it's a culture with Steelers players and their organization.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(12-07-2017, 12:00 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Possibly. Sometimes. In the average Steeelers player's case, it's either taught or simply acquired due to the supposed tough nature of the average Steelers player, i.e., the culture over the last 40 years or so. Go watch any highlight video of Ryan Shazier from His OSU days. Dude knew how to tackle properly. Face up, head to the side. I watched 2 or 3 last night and there was only one instance, one, of him lowering his head and striking an opponent with the top of his helmet, and that was a RB coming through the middle of the LOS.
Fact of the matter is, your diagnosis aside, it's a culture with Steelers players and their organization.
Shazier dropped his head to use the crown of the helmet as a weapon. It was a dirty and lead to a devestating injury. I hope he fully recovers and sees the field again one day.
Burfict was known to do the same in the recent past but has cleaned up the last couple of years because of his concussions and the league spotlight.
As for the future I'm not looking foward to the next steelers bengals game for one reason Mike Mitchell. While he is an excellent safety I believe he will try something stupid to get "revenge" and likely end up injuring himself, a teammate, or his opponent.
(12-07-2017, 11:46 AM)Synric Wrote: Shazier dropped his head to use the crown of the helmet as a weapon. It was a dirty and lead to a devestating injury. I hope he fully recovers and sees the field again one day.
Burfict was known to do the same in the recent past but has cleaned up the last couple of years because of his concussions and the league spotlight.
As for the future I'm not looking foward to the next steelers bengals game for one reason Mike Mitchell. While he is an excellent safety I believe he will try something stupid to get "revenge" and likely end up injuring himself, a teammate, or his opponent.
Did you know that Mitchell defended Iloka? Maybe he's not the prick you think he is?
Mitchell is an excellent safety solid against the pass and very good against the run, but like Burfict he is known to lower his helmet. Its my hope that the Shazier injury effects the players I'm the league and there is more heads up football.
None of this is different than Burfict leading with his helmet on a Ben sack a few years back causing a concussion.
As for the Bengals Steelers game this has been going on for a long time now and there's been suspension fines injuries. If it continues I believe they should start suspending players for that specific game.
He is. He’s defending iloka because those are the type of hits he routinely delivers. He’s just trying to prevent his own suspension for when he plays us next year.
(12-07-2017, 12:23 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: He is. He’s defending iloka because those are the type of hits he routinely delivers. He’s just trying to prevent his own suspension for when he plays us next year.
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Pretty much this.....and I think the NFL dropped the ball on rescinding Iloka's suspension. They need to be consistent and firm, IF they are serious about eliminating this from the game.
Although, I do have to agree with him about Gronk. I DO wonder if he isn't so concerned about that with the impending matchup
(12-07-2017, 12:23 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: He is. He’s defending iloka because those are the type of hits he routinely delivers. He’s just trying to prevent his own suspension for when he plays us next year.
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That's one way to look at it. Or could it be that he and Iloka are good friends? Or could he be saying what 90% of players think but just don't say publicly? We as fans tend to look at things differently than players.
(12-05-2017, 11:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: Shazier hit him in the side. Nowhere near the small of the back.
Is the numeral zero on the front or the back of his jersey? (Answer: the back.)
Is his helmet contacting the top or the bottom of the zero? (Answer: the bottom.)
The helmet is hitting the bottom of the zero on the back of his jersey. Therefore, shazier hit him in the lower back.
Now that that is settled, if Malone had been turned a little more to his left, shazier's hit could have been directly on Malone's spine, paralyzing him instead. So the fact that shazier ended up on the ground with a spinal injury rather than Malone due to an illegal hit that shazier intended to deliver makes me not feel sorry for shazier at all.
(12-06-2017, 04:03 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I seem to remember being taught back in pee-wee to see what you are tackling. No idea why it is Shazier can't seem to avoid using the crown of his helmet like a weapon. I'll say it again, he is just like Burfict. They both have talent and could be great players just need to knock off the stupid un-needed stuff and neither seems willing to do it.
Burfict gets suspensions and fines. Shazier was given a pass by the league for everything he does but the universe stepped in and said, knock it off.
Brown is the one citing karma, I guess AB thinks this is karma too for his illegal hit on Gio in playoffs.
2024 may go on record as one of most underperforming teams in Bengal history. Bengal's FO has major work to do on defensive side of the ball. I say tag and trade Tee Higgins in 2025 to start with the rebuild.
(12-07-2017, 08:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Brown is the one citing karma, I guess AB thinks this is karma too for his illegal hit on Gio in playoffs.
Well the surgery he had is no joke. This may actually have ended his career and if it didn't the next time he goes in for the spear he will probably lose use of his legs.
(12-07-2017, 07:25 PM)Beaker Wrote: Is the numeral zero on the front or the back of his jersey? (Answer: the back.)
Is his helmet contacting the top or the bottom of the zero? (Answer: the bottom.)
The helmet is hitting the bottom of the zero on the back of his jersey. Therefore, shazier hit him in the lower back.
Now that that is settled, if Malone had been turned a little more to his left, shazier's hit could have been directly on Malone's spine, paralyzing him instead. So the fact that shazier ended up on the ground with a spinal injury rather than Malone due to an illegal hit that shazier intended to deliver makes me not feel sorry for shazier at all.
"If..."
Shazier still did not hitting him in the middle of the back.
And I don't think I said Shazier used good form or that the injury was not his own fault.
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