(12-07-2017, 04:57 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't get the love.

I wasn't super impressed with him in Oakland, but I was ok with him as an assistant. Now he's like 1-27 in Cleveland and some folks can't wait to bring him back in. Why? Thanks to the last 2-3 drafts, our roster isn't exactly leaps and bounds better than their's, so I don't know why people think Hue would be great if he just had our players. One of the few spots you can check off here versus there is quarterback, but it's not for a lack of quality or quantity. I know there's going to be plenty of folks disagree with this, but I don't see AJM as leaps and bounds better than Kizer or Kessler. All three of those could be quality NFL QB's if a team invested in their development.

me neither....I think that Marvin needs Hue and Hue needs Marvin for each to be truly successful.  Marvin needs the ability to motivate that Hue brings and Hue needs the calm decision making of Marvin. They complement each other's weaknesses thus making them a strong team

Meh, big deal..

(12-07-2017, 04:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Didn't the Browns bring in Mike Holmgren to be GM after he retired from coaching? Same thing, right?

And he failed miserably at it.

If it's the same thing, it leads more towards it being a stupid decision to even consider.

(12-07-2017, 06:03 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: For me it's that he made Andy a much better play in 2015 then what he was. Also I think Hue gets the NFL and how to win ball games in the NFL. I know his win loss record doesn't show that but who wins in Cleveland.

That was also the season Dalton started working with House. So... there's that.

And as far as winning games, he was 8-8 in Oakland with a hodge lodge set up, and he's 1-27 with his own plans in place. If Hue had never been on the Bengals staff, I think most Cincinnati fans would shake their heads when someone suggests bringing Hue in. Hell, I'm pretty sure if Hue didn't even show up they should've done better than 1-27.

(12-07-2017, 03:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Then you must really want Marvin Lewis to stick around.  It's just conjecture, but no Hue means Marvin or Geunther barring some sort of drastic change, doesn't it?

No. Not really.

Jim O told us months ago to not expect the team to just hire from within if Marvin moved on (or something to that effect). 

But if it came right down to it, if Guenther was our only option to replace Marv... Then by all means, sign him up. At least he wanted to hold some of defensive players accountable last year.

We don't really know what we'll get from Guenther as a HC, but we know what we'll get with Marvin and it's not much. With Marv we're guaranteed to get embarrassed in Primetime, steeler and playoff games. We very well may see the same crap with Guenther or maybe even worse, but it's beyond time to take a chance on someone (anyone) else. 

(12-07-2017, 01:03 PM)firstand10 Wrote: Just heard about 10 minutes ago. HUE will be coaching the Browns in 2018!

GREAT NEWS.....He hasn't won a game in 2 years at Cleveland and yet fans totally Bengalized in losing, so use to losing, so use to talking NFL Draft before baseball over, so Bengalized they want this coach that has yet to win a game in 2 years. .....and who knows about Mike Brown and his weird moves. ....So I'm glad HUE isn't an option

The owner and Hue shook hands with AJ McCarron before Browns at Bengals and he would have been their quarterback that day had they not fumbled the trade deadline.  A BONUS to them keeping HUE is if McCarron remains an unrestricted free agent we can get a top tender pick because owner AND Hue want McCarron as their QB in 2018. ...and we could use an extra top pick and much, much more talent at blocking. 

Why anybody would want hue as the HC is beyond me. He is a good coordinator, but not a good HC...kinda like dick lebeau. The browns just did us a HUGE favor.

I would also love to see them come back for McCarron, but I think they will draft baker mayfield and end up with manziel 2.0 instead.

(12-07-2017, 04:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Going for Alex Smith doesn't make sense.
He'll be 34 next season and I don't expect him to be a good QB until he's 38+, which is how long I think it would take for Cleveland to become a contender.
Gotta go after a QB that will be 30 years old or younger.

Alex Smith makes more sense to go to a team that's already at contender level but missing a good QB like JAX, DEN, or even ARZ with a healthy David Johnson.

Agreed to disagree. I think Alex Smith would be a perfect stopgap for them. He'd automatically be the best QB they've had since Kosar, and I've already said 34 isn't old for a QB. Not sure what makes you think Smith will age any worse than any other good QB. He doesn't have a lengthy history of injuries. He sat around a bit when he was younger. He has at least 3 solid years left. I'd bet on that. Heck, look at Josh McCown. He's a 38 year old journeyman who seems to get better with age, and he has nothing on Smith.

The good thing about Alex is that he's not so good that they can't hedge their bet and draft a guy as well. Of course, I'll agree that Alex would also fit on a contender. He'd fit on any team that needs a QB. If he has several choices, he may go for a winner. Of course, Cleveland could also be more enticing if they're willing to overpay a bit.

(12-07-2017, 07:28 PM)Beaker Wrote: Why anybody would want hue as the HC is beyond me. He is a good coordinator, but not a good HC...kinda like dick lebeau. The browns just did us a HUGE favor.

I would also love to see them come back for McCarron, but I think they will draft baker mayfield and end up with manziel 2.0 instead.

My guess is enough people dislike Rosen enough it persuades him into coming out for the draft, and the Browns will see his big games and go after him. Which will be a locker room win. I'm sure the guys in the NFL are going to love playing with a guy who indirectly called them dumb.

(12-07-2017, 06:57 PM)Benton Wrote: That was also the season Dalton started working with House. So... there's that.

And as far as winning games, he was 8-8 in Oakland with a hodge lodge set up, and he's 1-27 with his own plans in place. If Hue had never been on the Bengals staff, I think most Cincinnati fans would shake their heads when someone suggests bringing Hue in. Hell, I'm pretty sure if Hue didn't even show up they should've done better than 1-27.

Well to be fair, I think people are cutting Hue some slack on that 1-27 record because the Browns made it clear this is a long term rebuild. I don't think they're meant to be winning. In fact, I think they're tanking ala a MLB or NBA team.

His stint with the Browns has taken SOME luster off him IMO, but I'm not going to trash him for 1-27 because I realize what they're doing. Heck, that's why they're bringing him back again.

(12-07-2017, 07:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well to be fair, I think people are cutting Hue some slack on that 1-27 record because the Browns made it clear this is a long term rebuild. I don't think they're meant to be winning. In fact, I think they're tanking ala a MLB or NBA team.

His stint with the Browns has taken SOME luster off him IMO, but I'm not going to trash him for 1-27 because I realize what they're doing. Heck, that's why they're bringing him back again.

Yes it's a rebuild, but I don't think the browns are still that bereft of talent. They have played well on several games, and likely should have a win or two by now this season. I think hue is not even getting the best out of the little he does have at this point. Like I said, I think he makes a better coordinator than HC.

(12-07-2017, 06:57 PM)Benton Wrote: That was also the season Dalton started working with House. So... there's that.

And as far as winning games, he was 8-8 in Oakland with a hodge lodge set up, and he's 1-27 with his own plans in place. If Hue had never been on the Bengals staff, I think most Cincinnati fans would shake their heads when someone suggests bringing Hue in. Hell, I'm pretty sure if Hue didn't even show up they should've done better than 1-27.

The Browns have been trying to tank the past two years not sure you can put that 1-27 record all on Hue.

(12-07-2017, 07:28 PM)Beaker Wrote: Why anybody would want hue as the HC is beyond me. He is a good coordinator, but not a good HC...kinda like dick lebeau. The browns just did us a HUGE favor.

I would also love to see them come back for McCarron, but I think they will draft baker mayfield and end up with manziel 2.0 instead.

Hue's record in Cleveland is dreadful, but the closest thing he's had to a real QB under center was a combo of Jason Campbell and off-the-couch Carson Palmer in Oakland and he got a top 10 offense out of them.  I think Hue with Dalton and AJ Green would outperform Marvin/Geunther with McCown/RGIII/Hogan/Kessler/Kizer.  

Plus, maybe Hue would have that "fired by Cleveland" blessing that Bellichik took to the Patriots.  Maybe.

Anywho, we won't know how thankful to be that Hue isn't our HC until we see who IS our HC in 2018.  I'm still thinking it's Marvin, but you can't blame me for that.

(12-07-2017, 07:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well to be fair, I think people are cutting Hue some slack on that 1-27 record because the Browns made it clear this is a long term rebuild. I don't think they're meant to be winning. In fact, I think they're tanking ala a MLB or NBA team.

His stint with the Browns has taken SOME luster off him IMO, but I'm not going to trash him for 1-27 because I realize what they're doing. Heck, that's why they're bringing him back again.

(12-07-2017, 07:57 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: The Browns have been trying to tank the past two years not sure you can put that 1-27 record all on Hue.

I dunno. Records like that are demoralizing, and it gets hard to overcome. Even if you turn it around, it stills lingers whenever you drop a couple games, like 'oh crap, is it this again?' So if the Browns as a team are doing that as a strategy, it seems like a pretty bad one as far as getting players to play hard for you.

Different, but I interviewed a high school basketball coach one time whose team hadn't won in 37 straight games. What was the one thing they needed to change (scheduling, strategy, kids coming out, etc)? His answer was "attitude." After the first half-winless season, those kids forgot what it was like to win. Then they went a whole season without a win. Then half another before the coach got rid of the varsity kids and started playing his eighth graders and a couple freshman. They finally got a win because it wasn't in their heads.

If the Browns' strategy is to become the best by setting records for being the worst, they aren't going to attract a lot of decent players. And the players they have are going to remember the bumps along the way.

Besides, I'd disagree in that they're making moves to try and win, they're just doing all the wrong things. A QB looks good, they play him. A QB throws an interception, they dump him and grab the next guy. They're still making plays. Hell, they only lost by three points to the Colts, Steelers, Jets, and Titans this season. They're trying, they just don't know how to win.

Hue may be a fine coordinator, but he's been awful as a HC. He's continued the same Browns trend of "start every player at quarterback and see who sticks" that hans't worked. i'm pretty happy the Browns are keeping him on the roll next year in the far, far remote chance that Marvin is no longer helming the Bengals (which I think he will be).

(12-07-2017, 08:30 PM)Benton Wrote: They're still making plays. Hell, they only lost by three points to the Colts, Steelers, Jets, and Titans this season. They're trying, they just don't know how to win.

Hmm, that is pretty interesting seeing as we put about 4 of our losses (one of which was by 20 damn points) in the "shoulda won" category this season.

Hue never really set the world on fire at Oakland!

If Merv returns....I'm out. If Piano Man returns, I'm out.

(12-07-2017, 07:51 PM)Beaker Wrote: Yes it's a rebuild, but I don't think the browns are still that bereft of talent. They have played well on several games, and likely should have a win or two by now this season. I think hue is not even getting the best out of the little he does have at this point. Like I said, I think he makes a better coordinator than HC.

Like I said, I think they're tanking. I don't think winning has been a priority so much as collecting as many quality draft picks as possible in a 3-4 year span.

(12-07-2017, 08:30 PM)Benton Wrote: I dunno. Records like that are demoralizing, and it gets hard to overcome. Even if you turn it around, it stills lingers whenever you drop a couple games, like 'oh crap, is it this again?' So if the Browns as a team are doing that as a strategy, it seems like a pretty bad one as far as getting players to play hard for you.

Different, but I interviewed a high school basketball coach one time whose team hadn't won in 37 straight games. What was the one thing they needed to change (scheduling, strategy, kids coming out, etc)? His answer was "attitude." After the first half-winless season, those kids forgot what it was like to win. Then they went a whole season without a win. Then half another before the coach got rid of the varsity kids and started playing his eighth graders and a couple freshman. They finally got a win because it wasn't in their heads.

If the Browns' strategy is to become the best by setting records for being the worst, they aren't going to attract a lot of decent players. And the players they have are going to remember the bumps along the way.

Besides, I'd disagree in that they're making moves to try and win, they're just doing all the wrong things. A QB looks good, they play him. A QB throws an interception, they dump him and grab the next guy. They're still making plays. Hell, they only lost by three points to the Colts, Steelers, Jets, and Titans this season. They're trying, they just don't know how to win.

Hue may be a fine coordinator, but he's been awful as a HC. He's continued the same Browns trend of "start every player at quarterback and see who sticks" that hans't worked. i'm pretty happy the Browns are keeping him on the roll next year in the far, far remote chance that Marvin is no longer helming the Bengals (which I think he will be).

I feel ya, but the counter to that is teams like the 76ers, Royals and Astros. After years of tanking and losing, suddenly they are (were) on top, with many of the same players that were there through all the losing. There's a lot of trial and error along the way and a lot of players will be tested. I'm not saying it will work, but this looks to be what Cleveland is doing. That's why they hired baseball guys for the FO.

Yeah the Browns were close to a few W's this year, yet they still lose. I don't think 1-27 happens by accident. You may not think Hue is a genius (he's not), but he's not this inept, either. They kept him for a reason. Tanking was the plan.

(12-07-2017, 08:56 PM)Wyche Wrote: If Merv returns....I'm out. If Piano Man returns, I'm out.

Same here brother. Same here.

(12-07-2017, 06:46 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: And he failed miserably at it.

If it's the same thing, it leads more towards it being a stupid decision to even consider.

Heck, weren't we all saying how it was incredibly stupid to go into the season with Ogbuehi and Fisher as the book ends, Bodine still the center, and a 30 year old career RT or some UDFA being the starting RG? But yet here we are seeing it.

My point is football teams often do what us fans would consider dumb, but they will ultimately do what they believe in regardless of fan input.

(12-07-2017, 10:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Like I said, I think they're tanking. I don't think winning has been a priority so much as collecting as many quality draft picks as possible in a 3-4 year span.


I feel ya, but the counter to that is teams like the 76ers, Royals and Astros. After years of tanking and losing, suddenly they are (were) on top, with many of the same players that were there through all the losing. There's a lot of trial and error along the way and a lot of players will be tested. I'm not saying it will work, but this looks to be what Cleveland is doing. That's why they hired baseball guys for the FO.

Yeah the Browns were close to a few W's this year, yet they still lose. I don't think 1-27 happens by accident. You may not think Hue is a genius (he's not), but he's not this inept, either. They kept him for a reason. Tanking was the plan.


Same here brother. Same here.

I’d say there’s a difference in baseball and basketball where teams draft players and can adjust rosters to stay higher. The browns play their draft picks. Take kizer, they drafted him and played him up until the first signs of struggling. Instead of standing behind him, they did what the browns always do and called up the next guy.

Different coach, different qbs, same problems. Honestly, hue may be the best coach in the world. Who knows when they have the same problems regardless of who is coaching.