(10-22-2017, 09:40 PM)Madieu Superstar Wrote: Nothing is gonna change. Why bother?
I lived through the 90's. I don't think the ineptitude is on the level, but I'm just as frustrated nonetheless. 
I can't take watching this team lose in the exact same way every single week.
Its an organization that has no idea what momentum is or how it plays into a game. 
The end of the first half and the beginning of the second half MATTERS. 
The game was over during that stretch. The INT's and other chicanery were just the icing on the cake. 

This is an extremely important game for the Bengals IF they're going to have any shot at a season down the road. I'm still not sure there's any real shot at a season regardless of the outcome, but that's another thread. 


But anyways this is in effect a "Big Game" and knowing how Marvin Lewis lead teams respond in big games:

Bengals - 16

Steelers - 27

We'll be playing with them until late in the 2nd quarter. Then there will be a fumble, interception, bad call, big fight after a penalty or something and the Bengals will fold up like a pup tent ! As usual

Fingers Crossed they finally play them with accountability, heart, and desire and whoop the $h1t out of em. But I doubt it




Am I allowed to say I told ya so ?

(10-22-2017, 10:26 PM)Always a Bengal Wrote: Dalton is a good qb. It ain't his fault. Rogers, Rothlisburger, or Brady couldn't survive with this crappy O- line.

I agree Dalton is a good QB. I disagree that elite QBs can't win without having good lines or lots of weapons surrounding them. Dalton needs lots of weapons and a solid line. He can't make things happen on his own. 

In today's game Roethlisbergers first pass to Bryant was supposed to be a screen pass. Roethlisberger saw that the play wasn't there so he reset and hit Bryant for a nice game. 

Later on Dalton threw a flat pass that was clearly guarded and resulted in Gio getting blown up. If you watch the replay you see Green slanting in with a step on the DB.  Dalton can't reset.

Brady, Rogers and Roethlisberger can make plays out of nothing by adjusting on the fly. Dalton has to stick with his first read. If its not there most times the play is doomed. 

Dalton isn't good enough to make a decent team greater a poor team good. 

(10-22-2017, 11:02 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: I agree Dalton is a good QB. I disagree that elite QBs can't win without having good lines or lots of weapons surrounding them. Dalton needs lots of weapons and a solid line. He can't make things happen on his own. 

In today's game Roethlisbergers first pass to Bryant was supposed to be a screen pass. Roethlisberger saw that the play wasn't there so he reset and hit Bryant for a nice game. 

Later on Dalton threw a flat pass that was clearly guarded and resulted in Gio getting blown up. If you watch the replay you see Green slanting in with a step on the DB.  Dalton can't reset.

Brady, Rogers and Roethlisberger can make plays out of nothing by adjusting on the fly. Dalton has to stick with his first read. If its not there most times the play is doomed. 

Dalton isn't good enough to make a decent team greater a poor team good. 

Sadly the pass rush is starting to get into Dalton's head. Once he sees the rush, he stops looking down field and starts looking for a place to run to and fall down. ie His instincts are faulty.

If this team couldnt win after the burfict INT in the playoffs against the steelers then why should I expect this team to beat them now?

At least Marvin will finally be gone. Thats about all I can hope for with this team

(10-23-2017, 12:36 PM)Browns Town Bengal Wrote: If this team couldnt win after the burfict INT in the playoffs against the steelers then why should I expect this team to beat them now?    

At least Marvin will finally be gone.  Thats about all I can hope for with this team

They find different ways to lose. I must admit, not covering a gunner on a punt was new to me.

The most important difference yesterday was the Steelers value interior linemen (Pouncey, Decastro) and we don't (Bodine and whatever slop we're throwing at RG).

The Steelers invest and we avoid.

The results?

Dalton- sacked 4 times, hit and harassed all day
Pig Ben- sacked 0 times, clean pocket and clean jersey

Bengals- 71 rush yards (25 yards on a single run by Mixon)
Steelers- 152 rush yards (192 yards from scrimmage for Bell)

The Bengals are 28th in rush yards and 31st in yards per carry. 8th most sacks allowed (on pace for 51). Dalton is the most sacked QB over the last 2 years.

The Steelers are 16th in rush yards and 23rd in yards per carry, despite a rusty start from Bell. They're on pace to allow only 23 sacks.

(10-23-2017, 12:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The most important difference yesterday was the Steelers value interior linemen (Pouncey, Decastro) and we don't (Bodine and whatever slop we're throwing at RG).

The Steelers invest and we avoid.

The results?

Dalton- sacked 4 times, hit and harassed all day
Pig Ben- sacked 0 times, clean pocket and clean jersey

Bell- 192 yards from scrimmage
Bengals- 71 rush yards (25 yards on a single run by Mixon)

The Bengals are 28th in rush yards and 31st in yards per carry. 8th most sacks allowed (on pace for 51). Dalton is the most sacked QB over the last 2 years.

The Steelers are 16th in rush yards and 23rd in yards per carry, despite a rusty start from Bell. They're on pace to allow only 23 sacks.

The Steelers ran behind DeCastro so many times too.

The funny thing is a lot of fans would laugh at paying Zeitler $10 million a year. The fact is the cap rises by $10 million each year...so $10 million now is like $6.5-7 million 5 years ago.

(10-22-2017, 09:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Bengals don't value Guard and Center and won't invest in it financially.

Meanwhile...some NFL teams actually value Guard more than Tackle as Guards are becoming that important.

Don't day the Bengals. Say Mike Brown don't value and won't invest i it financially.

(10-23-2017, 01:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Steelers ran behind DeCastro so many times too.

The funny thing is a lot of fans would laugh at paying Zeitler $10 million a year. The fact is the cap rises by $10 million each year...so $10 million now is like $6.5-7 million 5 years ago.

I think the funny thing is we should've drafted DeCastro in the first place.

But yeah, $10 million isn't as much as it sounds like with the cap constantly rising. Sure would be nice to still have Zeitler.

(10-23-2017, 02:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think the funny thing is we should've drafted DeCastro in the first place.

But yeah, $10 million isn't as much as it sounds like with the cap constantly rising. Sure would be nice to still have Zeitler.

I remember several of us clamoring for DeCastro.  However, Z was good, and at least played with a mean streak.  We don't see any of that now on the o line. We should have EXTENDED Zeitler, and the 12 mil to Cleveland becomes a moot point.

(10-23-2017, 03:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: I remember several of us clamoring for DeCastro.  However, Z was good, and at least played with a mean streak.  We don't see any of that now on the o line.  We should have EXTENDED Zeitler, and the 12 mil to Cleveland becomes a moot point.

But we (Mike) don't value interior linemen. 

What I don't understand is why would they burn a 1st round pick on a position they supposedly don't value? 

(10-23-2017, 03:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: I remember several of us clamoring for DeCastro.  However, Z was good, and at least played with a mean streak.  We don't see any of that now on the o line.  We should have EXTENDED Zeitler, and the 12 mil to Cleveland becomes a moot point.

After was passed on DeCastro, I've stopped getting my hopes up for the Bengals to draft the guy I want most. We apparently avoided him because he spent too much time on the ground at Stanford. Worked out great for us.

(10-23-2017, 02:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think the funny thing is we should've drafted DeCastro in the first place.

But yeah, $10 million isn't as much as it sounds like with the cap constantly rising. Sure would be nice to still have Zeitler.

I mean here are the core issues:

• Everyone knew that DeCastro was the best guard in that draft.   We had two shots at him
• We valued Zietler as at least as good as DeCastro - or even better.  Zeitler is a good guard, but DeCastro is significantly better
• We either mis-evaluated Zietler and DeCastro or valued Zietler plus a 4th rounder more -  and most of us know nothings would chosen DeCastro
• We bottom line do not value interior offensive linemen when that has been our biggest liability since Richie Braham was here.   And the fact that we picked him up for a song has helped enable the misconception that as a rule you can get as good an offensive lineman in the later rounds. 
• Now that will be further reinforced because of the disastrous 1st and 2nd round selections of Og and Fisher
• We are more attracted to athletic players than smart ones
• We tend to wait too long to try and re-sign the people we want (or think we can get away with waiting) and it almost always backfires:   Housh, J. Smith, J. Joseph, Whit, Zietler, etc.    We think that things will get better if we just wait - almost never happens.  And the players are almost always offended and end up leaving.
  

I'm not sure what we think we're doing, but we seem to not be on the same page with what players want.  You have to understand what a players wants and thinking are.  We do not seem to do that well.

There is just no way you take the chance of going without Whit and Zeitler this year.

(10-23-2017, 04:56 PM)3wt Wrote: I mean here are the core issues:

• Everyone knew that DeCastro was the best guard in that draft.   We had two shots at him
• We valued Zietler as at least as good as DeCastro - or even better.  Zeitler is a good guard, but DeCastro is significantly better
• We either mis-evaluated Zietler and DeCastro or valued Zietler plus a 4th rounder more -  and most of us know nothings would chosen DeCastro
• We bottom line do not value interior offensive linemen when that has been our biggest liability since Richie Braham was here.   And the fact that we picked him up for a song has helped enable the misconception that as a rule you can get as good an offensive lineman in the later rounds. 
• Now that will be further reinforced because of the disastrous 1st and 2nd round selections of Og and Fisher
• We are more attracted to athletic players than smart ones
• We tend to wait too long to try and re-sign the people we want (or think we can get away with waiting) and it almost always backfires:   Housh, J. Smith, J. Joseph, Whit, Zietler, etc.    We think that things will get better if we just wait - almost never happens.  And the players are almost always offended and end up leaving.
  

I'm not sure what we think we're doing, but we seem to not be on the same page with what players want.  You have to understand what a players wants and thinking are.  We do not seem to do that well.

There is just no way you take the chance of going without Whit and Zeitler this year.

Oh they supposedly tried to re-sign Zeitler...just at $5.5 million a year.

IF DeCastro was drafted here and Zeitler with Pittsburgh...pretty sure Zeitler is the better Guard. That's just how it goes.

(10-23-2017, 05:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Oh they supposedly tried to re-sign Zeitler...just at $5.5 million a year.

IF DeCastro was drafted here and Zeitler with Pittsburgh...pretty sure Zeitler is the better Guard. That's just how it goes.

Agree on what they offered Zeitler.  They were low balling him up front.  Then they waited till DeCastro signed for 10 million a year.  We probably could have gotten him easily to $8 million if we'd gotten in gear and offered him that contract.

Still a possibility that Zeitler's agent was asking to wait till DeCastro signed.   But if we offered him $5.5 million up front he was probably already ticked off and ready to go.

I disagree about if Zietler went to Pittsburgh.  I do think they have the superior O-line coach and Zeitler would have been better.   But DeCastro was always going to be the better guard.   He's flat out dominant.

(10-23-2017, 04:56 PM)3wt Wrote: I mean here are the core issues:

• Everyone knew that DeCastro was the best guard in that draft.   We had two shots at him
• We valued Zietler as at least as good as DeCastro - or even better.  Zeitler is a good guard, but DeCastro is significantly better
• We either mis-evaluated Zietler and DeCastro or valued Zietler plus a 4th rounder more -  and most of us know nothings would chosen DeCastro
• We bottom line do not value interior offensive linemen when that has been our biggest liability since Richie Braham was here.   And the fact that we picked him up for a song has helped enable the misconception that as a rule you can get as good an offensive lineman in the later rounds. 
• Now that will be further reinforced because of the disastrous 1st and 2nd round selections of Og and Fisher
• We are more attracted to athletic players than smart ones
• We tend to wait too long to try and re-sign the people we want (or think we can get away with waiting) and it almost always backfires:   Housh, J. Smith, J. Joseph, Whit, Zietler, etc.    We think that things will get better if we just wait - almost never happens.  And the players are almost always offended and end up leaving.
  

I'm not sure what we think we're doing, but we seem to not be on the same page with what players want.  You have to understand what a players wants and thinking are.  We do not seem to do that well.

There is just no way you take the chance of going without Whit and Zeitler this year.

Extra 4th Round picks are a cost savings as it's cheap labor replacing a veteran.

They did try to extend Zeitler. They just low-balled him. $5.5 million a year was supposedly the offer...or basically HALF of what DeCastro got. 

Hate the Steelers all you want but they want to win.

(12-11-2017, 01:18 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Hate the Steelers all you want but they want to win.

Side note, the officials are doing a VERY bad job at making the Steelers win, tonight. 

(12-11-2017, 01:18 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Hate the Steelers all you want but they want to win.

Everybody wants to win, just like everybody wants to be rich. 

Not all are winners in life or football. 

Pittsburgh’s organizational approach pays off again with the 2017 AFC North championship, a shot at home field, and a possible 7th Super Bowl title.

Cincinnati’s organizational approach pays off again with Mike Brown reducing salary costs, pocketing all the excess cap money, milking the county, paying the family handsomely to be football “experts”, and winning another financial title while the team watches the Playoffs from the comfort of their homes.