I saw Doug Pelfrey on a Local Cincinnati Sports Talk show Sunday Night.

He said he had inside info that Marvin did not want to take John Ross in the Draft. That Mike Brown and Duke Tobin were part of a 3 person decision making group with Marvin and they wanted Ross. Also heard a while back that Marvin was upset that we lost Whitworth and expected to be able to keep him.

Pelfrey implied that Marvin may want out as Coach due to having less influence on Drafting decisions with Tobin in the mix.

Marvin's departure may lead to a Mike Brown & Duke Tobin created Offseason Plan for the entire Coaching Staff plus Draft decisions.

Any New Coach may have to accept being the 3rd Wheel with possibly less input Power than Marvin had in the end.

Listening to Pelfrey had me worried that we may be Longing for the 5 straight Playoff appearances within a few years.

That a Mike Brown and Duke Tobin Brain Trust is solidifying and that their recent ideas involved the Drafting of Ross over whoever Marvin wanted plus allowing Whitworth to leave.

These same 2 decision makers may be about to embark on The Offseason Plan going forward, hiring all new Coaches or promoting from within and then developing the Draft Plan. The level of input from a New Coach unclear.

Got me worried...

I'm not surprised. Whenever Mikey boy really gets involved with a draft decision, that decision turns out bad.

He wanted one year wonder Akili Smith over trading away the rights to Ricky Williams for a boat load of picks. The coaches wanted the picks to rebuild with.

I've heard that before that Marvin thought we were going to keep Whitworth all the way up to the night before Whit left and Marvin was not happy. It is definitely an argument for Marvin Lewis as a GM. I still think we need to get new blood as a Head Coach but reducing Mike Brown's power over the team would be a good thing.

how much is marvin hiding behind all of the bullshit lines he gives us.

(12-11-2017, 07:17 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I'm not surprised. Whenever Mikey boy really gets involved with a draft decision, that decision turns out bad.

He wanted one year wonder Akili Smith over trading away the rights to Ricky Williams for a boat load of picks. The coaches wanted the picks to rebuild with.

What if Mike had Marvin on one side and Tobin on the other?

Then went with Tobin's idea for John Ross rather than it actually being Mike Brown's idea to take Ross.

What we may see in the Offseason is a Mike Brown influenced by Duke Tobin leading to Tobin's fingerprints on the New Plan.

Marvin's departure could send things in an even worse direction.

Won't be good if the Marvin Era is book ended by Pre Marvin and Post Marvin gaffes and Poor decisions.

Wonder who Marvin wanted over John Ross ?

Will Tobin be in Mike Brown's ear Shaping everything from Draft Plans to Coach hiring decisions ?

Whoever wanted Ross with that pick is an idiot. If it was a one Mr. M. Brown, we are screwed even worse once Marvin is gone.

I definitely believe this; Marvin is a smart guy he isn't going to want to draft a 5-11 WR over A future stud at DT in Johnathan Allen. Also heard Marvin nearly left after Whitworth left for LA.

I didn't need Pelfrey to tell me this. It was clear in the way that Marvin talked about Ross to the media, and the way he coached him during his couple of appearances.

(12-11-2017, 07:39 PM)depthchart Wrote: What if Mike had Marvin on one side and Tobin on the other?

Then went with Tobin's idea for John Ross rather than it actually being Mike Brown's idea to take Ross.

What we may see in the Offseason is a Mike Brown influenced by Duke Tobin leading to Tobin's fingerprints on the New Plan.

Marvin's departure could send things in an even worse direction.

Won't be good if the Marvin Era is book ended by Pre Marvin and Post Marvin gaffes and Poor decisions.

Wonder who Marvin wanted over John Ross ?

Will Tobin be in Mike Brown's ear Shaping everything from Draft Plans to Coach hiring decisions ?

I don't know man, Mike has always had a thing for the shiny new toy type of draft pick.  David Klingler, Akili Smith, Kijana Carter, Peter Warrick..  And now perhaps, John Ross?

And, you have to believe that Tobin is only allowed to have as much power and influence as he does, because Mike trusts him to be of the same line of thinking, that he is.  In other words, a hand-picked yes man, a lacky, a toady, etc.

(12-11-2017, 07:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't know man, Mike has always had a thing for the shiny new toy type of draft pick.  David Klingler, Akili Smith, Kijana Carter, Peter Warrick..  And now perhaps, John Ross?

And, you have to believe that Tobin is only allowed to have as much power and influence as he does, because Mike trusts him to be of the same line of thinking, that he is.  In other words, a hand-picked yes man, a lacky, a toady, etc.

That would explain this douche licker...

Well, back to the 90's we go!

Tobin would have been canned on any other team by now. But he is a sacred cow of the Bengals front office, and thus he stays.

Basically whoever has had the final says in the drafts the last few years should be fired immediately. Its one thing to not go after free agents because the owner doesnt want to spend money, but when a team like the Bengals rely on the draft so much for success, they cant afford to have people in place whiffing as bad as they have.

Of course I am looking at it from a wanting to win perspective. If I was looking at it from a pure business perspective to make money for the family, then it would make sense to keep the status quo than going out and improving the front office.

This sounds like a nightmare is about to unfold. I still can’t get my mind around someone not understanding that they aren’t good at something. The record is right there for everyone to see. You are not good at it. It’s empirical.

I believe some of this... but not all of it.

Marvin is an egotistical smug bastard.

He's been striking out for the most part at the position he should excel at... linebacker.

This guy doesn't have a clue often when coaching in some games.

What leaves us to believe he's any more capable of making scout decisions?

I think it's a conglomeration of Tobin, Brown, Lewis making shitty picks.

A clear indication where this club is going is if Alexander is retained.

If PA gets canned and they bring back Marvin it might show a positive movement.

I just wish Marv, Paul, Guenther are shown the door.

Tobin's not coaching the team and losing control of his players when the heat is turned up.

That right there is ALL on Lewis and his crew.

Like I’ve said before, just biding my time and outliving MB before I start investing care or money into the Bengals again.

It's hard to imagine anyone other than Mike Brown willing to let Whitworth get away.

It's easy to imagine Mike Brown actually believing that drafting the guy who made the biggest splash at the combine would placate a fan base irate about Whitworth, or for that matter, Zeitler.

So, it's got some traction on the old believability scale.

I’m holding out hope, albeit a very small amount of hope, that Mike Brown will decide to retire after the 50th anniversary season and let Katie take over, which would then include the hiring of a true GM. OK, stop laughing. A guy can dream, can’t he?


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Ah so The marvin haters get to run back over to blame Mike for all bad decisions.

(12-11-2017, 07:30 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: how much is marvin hiding behind all of the bullshit lines he gives us.

He has an obligation to protect information his employer asks him to. Plus he's not the kind of guy to go complain in the media about his lot in life. At least people may come to learn a little more about the constraints the man is working under.

One thing is for sure...Mike Brown has made hundreds of millions off of the Bengals and Marvin has made tens of millions off of them.

Kind of hard to feel bad for either of them...but I think ownership is largely to blame.