(08-22-2015, 07:45 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Alright, come on man.

George is a top 3 SS and top 10 safety in general right now.

I understand that a lot of threads on here getting pretty homer-ish, but this is one of the few that is absolutely warranted.

Show me a better coverage safety over the last two years, I'd love to see it. The thing is, you wouldn't be able to. Why would you diminish Iloka's abilities like that?

He's probably the most underrated S in the entire league yet someone is saying he's overrated?! GTFO.

He is probably ranked anywhere between 12-20 as is Nelson. The guy isn't an elite S or a top 5 S which was the whole basis for my comment.  If you read the other comments on this thread they are making him out to be an "elite" S which at this point is false.  

He had a really good year last season and i think he's a good player; I just don't think he's an elite S. If you think he is then you are overrating him.

Case Closed.

(08-23-2015, 12:38 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Fair enough, even to crack the top 7 in S salaries, it would take $7M/per.  I really do not feel like the 4 yr-$28+M is really out of line, in any sort of way.  George is an asset to the team, he has truly earned his position, worked his way up through the ranks, bided his time for Chris Crocker to retire.  All the man has done, is live up to, and exceed expectations.

Not at all over priced. He's entering the prime of his career, one of our younger leaders.

His growth as a player has been so great to watch.

A list of S I'd take over Iloka.

Earl Thomas
Weddle
G. Quinn
M. Burnett
T.J Ward
K. Chancellor
D. McCourty
Patrick Chung
R.Nelson
A. Bethea
H. Smith

(08-23-2015, 01:29 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: A list of S I'd take over Iloka.

Earl Thomas
Weddle
G. Quinn
M. Burnett
T.J Ward
K. Chancellor
D. McCourty
Patrick Chung
R.Nelson
A. Bethea
H. Smith

Ward took a step back.
Chung isn't good.
Bethea has been declining recently.
Then Harrison Smith, while very talented, has been injured much of his career. That's why I have a hard time putting Eifert above numerous tight ends.

But I think the most underrated safety in the NFL is Reshad Jones. Dude has been a beast.

EDIT: Everyone else that you mentioned (Jones included) I rank higher or on the same level as Iloka. He isn't elite, but he is pretty good.

(08-21-2015, 11:44 AM)EatonFan Wrote: I've been surprised that Williams hasn't unseated Nelson or Iloka, but that tandem is getting the job done.  Can't argue with results.

Williams lacks the cover skills of Nelson and Illoka.

(08-23-2015, 01:29 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: A list of S I'd take over Iloka.

Earl Thomas
Weddle
G. Quinn
M. Burnett
T.J Ward
K. Chancellor
D. McCourty
Patrick Chung
R.Nelson
A. Bethea
H. Smith

For what we do the only one on there that is better than Illoka is Earl Thomas.

(08-21-2015, 11:39 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: 4 year 28 mill is sooooooooo worth it.

We have been looking for a safety like Illoka for as long as I can remember. If we let him walk...So help me God.

i agree! 

(08-23-2015, 12:52 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: He is probably ranked anywhere between 12-20 as is Nelson. The guy isn't an elite S or a top 5 S which was the whole basis for my comment.  If you read the other comments on this thread they are making him out to be an "elite" S which at this point is false.  

He had a really good year last season and i think he's a good player; I just don't think he's an elite S. If you think he is then you are overrating him.

Case Closed.

And being the top cover S in the league?   That means nothing to you?  Seems like your criteria for top S's is to play for someone else.

(08-23-2015, 12:52 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: He is probably ranked anywhere between 12-20 as is Nelson. The guy isn't an elite S or a top 5 S which was the whole basis for my comment.  If you read the other comments on this thread they are making him out to be an "elite" S which at this point is false.  

He had a really good year last season and i think he's a good player; I just don't think he's an elite S. If you think he is then you are overrating him.

Case Closed.

A bunch of anti-Bengals biased opinion makes it "case closed"?? Interesting arguing tactic.

Name a better coverage safety that doesn't suck at other tasks that doesn't play for the Seahawks.

I'll be waiting. Your list of guys you'd take over Iloka had some really mediocre players on it outside of a couple. Where do you get that those guys are better?? How do you figure, specifically, because it surely can't be anything remotely related to their ability in coverage, and let's not even mention that Iloka isn't the one trick pony some of those other guys are too.

(08-23-2015, 06:46 PM)djs7685 Wrote: A bunch of anti-Bengals biased opinion makes it "case closed"?? Interesting arguing tactic.

Name a better coverage safety that doesn't suck at other tasks that doesn't play for the Seahawks.

I'll be waiting. Your list of guys you'd take over Iloka had some really mediocre players on it outside of a couple. Where do you get that those guys are better?? How do you figure, specifically, because it surely can't be anything remotely related to their ability in coverage, and let's not even mention that Iloka isn't the one trick pony some of those other guys are too.

Gipson from the Browns, Weddle from San Diego, Byrd from the Saints (when healthy), and Quin for the Lions just to name a few. Iloka is a beast, but I don't think he's top 5.

(08-23-2015, 12:52 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: He is probably ranked anywhere between 12-20 as is Nelson. The guy isn't an elite S or a top 5 S which was the whole basis for my comment.  If you read the other comments on this thread they are making him out to be an "elite" S which at this point is false.  

He had a really good year last season and i think he's a good player; I just don't think he's an elite S. If you think he is then you are overrating him.

Case Closed.

LMAO

No one in the league besides Seattle has a better pair of Safeties and you put us between 12-20...

This is with no pass rush last season...

GTFO on this one. I understand the thought of some fans propping up players on the team in a biased way
but that is definately not the case with Iloka or Reggie. They are both top 10 Safeties and Iloka is young and
has tons of talent. No guy besides maybe Earl Thomas can cover better and Iloka has him on size big time.

(08-23-2015, 01:29 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: A list of S I'd take over Iloka.

Earl Thomas
Weddle
G. Quinn
M. Burnett
T.J Ward
K. Chancellor
D. McCourty
Patrick Chung
R.Nelson
A. Bethea
H. Smith

Earl Thomas- Free Safety
Weddle- Free Safety
G. Quinn- Free Safety
D. McCourty- Free Safety
R. Nelson- Free Safety
H. Smith- Free Safety

I can't believe how many people on this thread don't understand that there are TWO types of safety. So what you actually are saying is you would take 5 players over Illoka at his ACTUAL position. Including a crusty 31 year old in Bethea. Hmmmm ok.

(08-23-2015, 06:54 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Gipson from the Browns, Weddle from San Diego, Byrd from the Saints (when healthy), and Quin for the Lions just to name a few. Iloka is a beast, but I don't think he's top 5.

Which was the whole basis for my argument. I can't believe the outrage I'm receiving from fans because I don't put Iloka as a top 5 S.  

I guarantee you that if you polled the nation on the who are the top 5 S in the league; the majority of them would not have him in the top 5. You Bengals homers need to settle down and take a chill pill.

I have said that he is probably ranked somewhere between 12-20 and had a really good season. I think he has potential to get even better; apparently that isn't good enough for some fans. They demand I say top 5 or I'm hating. What a joke.

(08-23-2015, 07:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: LMAO

No one in the league besides Seattle has a better pair of Safeties and you put us between 12-20...

This is with no pass rush last season...

GTFO on this one. I understand the thought of some fans propping up players on the team in a biased way
but that is definately not the case with Iloka or Reggie. They are both top 10 Safeties and Iloka is young and
has tons of talent. No guy besides maybe Earl Thomas can cover better and Iloka has him on size big time.

I think the Bengals S as a tandem are probably top 4. I don't think either of them are top 5 alone. If you think that is nonsense then you are a biased idiot.

Lol.  George Iloka is on par with alot of the leagues top safeties and I hope to see him continue to grow in stripes.  

The secondary was a huge part of getting the Bengals to the playoffs last season. They did it with the worst pass rush in the league  and a decimated Linebacker group.   George was a big part of that secondary.

(08-24-2015, 12:40 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I think the Bengals S as a tandem are probably top 4. I don't think either of them are top 5 alone. If you think that is nonsense then you are a biased idiot.

It's nonsense to list a few ball hawking FS as a reason that Iloka isn't one of the top SS in the league. That would be like saying Burfict isn't a top WILL backer because there are some good SAM backers in the NFL. Great logic.

I'd probably re-think who is a "biased idiot" when your list was a bunch of free safeties, a couple one dimensional strong safeties, and a couple of guys that aren't even very good at all. As someone else said, it seems like your criteria for being a good safety is not playing for the Bengals.

George lays big hits, is fine in run support, and has been better than basically every safety (including FS) in the league over the past 2 seasons. What more do you want from the guy? I like how you think polling the nation (mostly casual fans) would somehow prove your opinions. I'd actually love to see the nation polled on the top 5 S so you could see how stupid the average football fan actually is. I'd lay big money that at least 1 guy in the top 5 would be either retired or completely washed up. Name recognition =/= actual ranking. Give the average football fan a blank ballot and they probably couldn't even name 5 current safeties, let alone be a legitimate judge of ranking them.

(08-24-2015, 01:28 PM)djs7685 Wrote: It's nonsense to list a few ball hawking FS as a reason that Iloka isn't one of the top SS in the league. That would be like saying Burfict isn't a top WILL backer because there are some good SAM backers in the NFL. Great logic.

I'd probably re-think who is a "biased idiot" when your list was a bunch of free safeties, a couple one dimensional strong safeties, and a couple of guys that aren't even very good at all. As someone else said, it seems like your criteria for being a good safety is not playing for the Bengals.

George lays big hits, is fine in run support, and has been better than basically every safety (including FS) in the league over the past 2 seasons. What more do you want from the guy? I like how you think polling the nation (mostly casual fans) would somehow prove your opinions. I'd actually love to see the nation polled on the top 5 S so you could see how stupid the average football fan actually is. I'd lay big money that at least 1 guy in the top 5 would be either retired or completely washed up. Name recognition =/= actual ranking. Give the average football fan a blank ballot and they probably couldn't even name 5 current safeties, let alone be a legitimate judge of ranking them.

You have a right to your opinion as do I. I've given my opinion on Iloka and provided other options that at this point I'd rather have. The bottom line is that Iloka is a good S and I'd love for him to sign an extension; I just think this message forum overrates him which is par for the course for Bengal fans.

I'm not sure why you are so flabbergasted that I don't put him as a top 5 S. Who knows, if he improves this season he might be up there.  Instead of arguing whether he is top 5 or not why don't you at least acknowledge that my opinion isn't some ridiculous outlandish notion.  I know people enjoy bashing the minority opinion on this forum but I thought you'd be better than that. Guess not.

(08-24-2015, 01:55 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: You have a right to your opinion as do I. I've given my opinion on Iloka and provided other options that at this point I'd rather have. The bottom line is that Iloka is a good S and I'd love for him to sign an extension; I just think this message forum overrates him which is par for the course for Bengal fans.

I'm not sure why you are so flabbergasted that I don't put him as a top 5 S. Who knows, if he improves this season he might be up there.  Instead of arguing whether he is top 5 or not why don't you at least acknowledge that my opinion isn't some ridiculous outlandish notion.  I know people enjoy bashing the minority opinion on this forum but I thought you'd be better than that. Guess not.

Your opinion of where exactly he's ranked isn't necessarily the issue, it's how you get there that becomes the outlandish part.

1. Using a handful of free safeties to determine where George stands as a strong safety doesn't make much sense.

2. Using a completely hypothetical national poll which is purely conjecture at this point to justify your ranking is just absurd.

I'd feel that your opinion is valid if you had legitimate reasons. So far, I haven't seen anything even though we've explained what George does better than the others around the league. If you're not willing to explain why those guys are better safeties than him, don't act so surprised when you get this type of response. Don't complain about people not taking you seriously when the basis of your argument revolves around casual fans hypothetical opinions and "they're better because I said they're better".

(08-24-2015, 01:28 PM)djs7685 Wrote: It's nonsense to list a few ball hawking FS as a reason that Iloka isn't one of the top SS in the league. That would be like saying Burfict isn't a top WILL backer because there are some good SAM backers in the NFL. Great logic.

I'd probably re-think who is a "biased idiot" when your list was a bunch of free safeties, a couple one dimensional strong safeties, and a couple of guys that aren't even very good at all. As someone else said, it seems like your criteria for being a good safety is not playing for the Bengals.

George lays big hits, is fine in run support, and has been better than basically every safety (including FS) in the league over the past 2 seasons. What more do you want from the guy? I like how you think polling the nation (mostly casual fans) would somehow prove your opinions. I'd actually love to see the nation polled on the top 5 S so you could see how stupid the average football fan actually is. I'd lay big money that at least 1 guy in the top 5 would be either retired or completely washed up. Name recognition =/= actual ranking. Give the average football fan a blank ballot and they probably couldn't even name 5 current safeties, let alone be a legitimate judge of ranking them.

(08-24-2015, 02:15 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Your opinion of where exactly he's ranked isn't necessarily the issue, it's how you get there that becomes the outlandish part.

1. Using a handful of free safeties to determine where George stands as a strong safety doesn't make much sense.

2. Using a completely hypothetical national poll which is purely conjecture at this point to justify your ranking is just absurd.

I'd feel that your opinion is valid if you had legitimate reasons. So far, I haven't seen anything even though we've explained what George does better than the others around the league. If you're not willing to explain why those guys are better safeties than him, don't act so surprised when you get this type of response. Don't complain about people not taking you seriously when the basis of your argument revolves around casual fans hypothetical opinions and "they're better because I said they're better".

Spot on.

(08-24-2015, 02:15 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Your opinion of where exactly he's ranked isn't necessarily the issue, it's how you get there that becomes the outlandish part.

1. Using a handful of free safeties to determine where George stands as a strong safety doesn't make much sense.

2. Using a completely hypothetical national poll which is purely conjecture at this point to justify your ranking is just absurd.

I'd feel that your opinion is valid if you had legitimate reasons. So far, I haven't seen anything even though we've explained what George does better than the others around the league. If you're not willing to explain why those guys are better safeties than him, don't act so surprised when you get this type of response. Don't complain about people not taking you seriously when the basis of your argument revolves around casual fans hypothetical opinions and "they're better because I said they're better".

I don't have the time nor do I care to break down every S and give you reasons why they are better.  That would take a very long time.  I've never even done that for Andy Dalton and we all know where I stand with that guy. 

The bottom line is that I think this message forum has overhyped Iloka based upon a PFF stat. While I consider advanced analytics a part of the game that plays a role; I also have eyes and watch the games. I don't see him making an impact in games as I do some of the other players I have mentioned.  In fact, based upon the eye ball test you could make a case that Nelson is better than Iloka.

PFF comes up with all types of stats which results in mediocre players that are ranked very high, and vise versa. 

Also, you are too caught up with the example I brought up about polling the fans. I could easily change that and say writers of America or NFL GMs and I still think the same thought would hold true; that Iloka is a S ranked between 10-20.

This isn't some absurd notion....the only absurd notion is that you think ranking him between 10-20 is absurd.