(12-14-2017, 04:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, you can put me in the group that thought the defense was going to be lights out.  It was looking like the Secondary was going to be strong, after getting it together in the back half of 2016, and before the season began, the Minter signing and Vigil coming into his second season was going to be the cure for the LB position.

I guess that didn't really work out so well..

Put me in the group that thought the D was gonna be a top 1/3 of the league unit.

Big Whit should have retired a Bengal.

(12-15-2017, 07:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Man did we screw the pooch in letting Whit go. I could understand Zeitler with how much the Stains paid him but
this team probably would not be where it is if Whit was still here. Not only is he a great LT, he is a great leader.

Also your last point proves itself. To not value the interior O-line is the stupidest thing a Front Office can do.

Yeah, I have never waffled that I didn't value Zeitler at that $, and it had nothing to do with his position. He's being paid as tied for the 5th best OL in the NFL. Rather than Zeitler at $12m/yr, Alex Mack is making $9m/yr and they could have easily gone after him before the '16 season.

Heck, just this offseason you could have had Joel Bitonio for $8.5m/yr, or JC Tretter for $5.6m/yr, and both of those guys would be huge upgrades to the current line. I would take both of them for $14.1m/yr over Zeitler's $12m/yr.

Instead you get Ogbuehi, Bodine, and the gang...

(12-15-2017, 06:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Didn't try very hard. They could have tagged him and it wouldn't be a matter of trying or not.

They lowballed him, he left, they said "oh well" and told Hobspin to start writing up some articles about Ogbuehi going back to his "natural position" and how much he was working out, and how he was going to have a healthy offseason and such BS.

Oh that's just not true.

They offered him the same yearly pay. The problem was they wanted to sign him to a one year deal and he wanted a multiyear deal.

There was no low balling per sé, just a difference in length.

(12-15-2017, 11:54 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Oh that's just not true.

They offered him the same yearly pay. The problem was they wanted to sign him to a one year deal and he wanted a multiyear deal.

There was no low balling per sé, just a difference in length.

Only technically true. It's another one of those lies Hobspin pumps out.

They might have offered him 1yr/$11m, which is *technically* the same yearly pay, but it's not the same amount. Whit also got a $5m signing bonus (which is $5m in cash he got right then and there) so it wasn't the same at all.

Not to mention if he only ended up playing 1 year for the Rams, he'd walk away with $15m, which was the amount of guaranteed money in the contract. 1yr/$10-11m =/= 1yr/$15m.... so please stop propagating that Hobspin lie about offering him the same amount, just over a shorter length.

Combine that with the fact that the Rams clearly were doing a lot more/were much more concerned than the Bengals with being a winning team. The Bengals are married to having the same mediocre HC, the same shitty OL coach for a quarter of a century, and going into the season with the worst OC in the NFL.

Combine that with continuing to let all their good players go and replacing them with Ogbuehi/LaFell/Williams/etc, and they are not REALLY offering the same amount of money... and there's no question that it's the Bengals' own fault.

(12-16-2017, 01:11 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Only technically true. It's another one of those lies Hobspin pumps out.

They might have offered him 1yr/$11m, which is *technically* the same yearly pay, but it's not the same amount. Whit also got a $5m signing bonus (which is $5m in cash he got right then and there) so it wasn't the same at all.

Not to mention if he only ended up playing 1 year for the Rams, he'd walk away with $15m, which was the amount of guaranteed money in the contract. 1yr/$10-11m =/= 1yr/$15m.... so please stop propagating that Hobspin lie about offering him the same amount, just over a shorter length.

Combine that with the fact that the Rams clearly were doing a lot more/were much more concerned than the Bengals with being a winning team. The Bengals are married to having the same mediocre HC, the same shitty OL coach for a quarter of a century, and going into the season with the worst OC in the NFL.

Combine that with continuing to let all their good players go and replacing them with Ogbuehi/LaFell/Williams/etc, and their not REALLY offering the same amount of money... and there's no question that it's the Bengals' own fault.

nailed it

(12-16-2017, 01:11 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Only technically true. It's another one of those lies Hobspin pumps out.

They might have offered him 1yr/$11m, which is *technically* the same yearly pay, but it's not the same amount. Whit also got a $5m signing bonus (which is $5m in cash he got right then and there) so it wasn't the same at all.

Not to mention if he only ended up playing 1 year for the Rams, he'd walk away with $15m, which was the amount of guaranteed money in the contract. 1yr/$10-11m =/= 1yr/$15m.... so please stop propagating that Hobspin lie about offering him the same amount, just over a shorter length.

Combine that with the fact that the Rams clearly were doing a lot more/were much more concerned than the Bengals with being a winning team. The Bengals are married to having the same mediocre HC, the same shitty OL coach for a quarter of a century, and going into the season with the worst OC in the NFL.

Combine that with continuing to let all their good players go and replacing them with Ogbuehi/LaFell/Williams/etc, and their not REALLY offering the same amount of money... and there's no question that it's the Bengals' own fault.

Spot on !

Whit wanted one last chance with a team at least willing to try and be a winner. He knew the Bengals (Mike Brown) wasn't going to try and he doesn't have many chances left. I can't say I blame him.

Guys, guys, hey guys??

... What if Whitworth and Zeitler never intended to come back here? 

(12-16-2017, 10:57 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Guys, guys, hey guys??

... What if Whitworth and Zeitler never intended to come back here? 

That's the element that often gets overlooked around here IMHO. 

We say the Bengals "let" this one walk that one walk. I'd speculate there's been several that were walking no matter what they were offered here.

Who wants their NFL career highlights to be "and here's a really good player who spent his time on a mediocre team making mediocre attempts at winning but, if he'd only been on a better team"

(12-16-2017, 11:11 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's the element that often gets overlooked around here IMHO. 

We say the Bengals "let" this one walk that one walk. I'd speculate there's been several that were walking no matter what they were offered here.

Who wants their NFL career highlights to be "and here's a really good player who spent his time on a mediocre team making mediocre attempts at winning but, if he'd only been on a better team"

Yep, I agree. Whitworth played under Marvin for what, 9 years? I'd say he served his time. I think Whit agreed.

Zietler would have been stupid to not take the money Cleveland offered him. Although if we did match it, I think he would have stayed... Maybe. The bengals aren't great but at least we aren't the Browns (yet  )

I don't think sanu or jones had any real intentions of coming back either.

(12-16-2017, 11:30 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Yep, I agree. Whitworth played under Marvin for what, 9 years? I'd say he served his time. I think Whit agreed.

Zietler would have been stupid to not take the money Cleveland offered him. Although if we did match it, I think he would have stayed... Maybe. The bengals aren't great but at least we aren't the Browns (yet  )

I don't think sanu or jones had any real intentions of coming back either.

Agree with you about Whitworth, he's got a legitimate shot at playing deep into the playoffs, or possibly even the Superbowl this year.  Much better than what his prospects would have been with the Bengals this year.

Also agree on Jones/Sanu.  Players can't control who drafts them, that is just a simple fact.  However, they can control some things after that rookie contract is completed.  I guess some fans can't get over the fact that some players don't see Cincinnati as a dream career destination. 

I think if the Bengals would have matched the offer from the Rams that Whitworth would have stayed. I could be wrong on that, but I think he really does love the city and would've stayed. The way the team handled Zeitler blows my mind. You drafted him with the plan of not re-signing him. What in the actual ****? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

The story with Jones still kills me. They went to bed thinking they had an agreement with him and were going to finish up in the morning. Then he signed with the Lions while the Bengals slept. Seriously, if he was that important to bring back, why would you break off talks to get some sleep without a signed contract in hand? Our front office can be a joke at times.

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/16/rams-tackle-andrew-whitworth-the-nfls-oldest-starting-lineman-continues-to-defy-odds/

Quote:“They weren’t even in the vicinity of any of the other offers,” Whitworth says. “At the last second, when they realized they were going to lose me, they bumped that offer up a little bit. But still, not even close. I think they took for granted the fact that a lot of other people would make me offers that would be tough to turn down.”

From the man's own mouth.

(12-19-2017, 11:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: https://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/16/rams-tackle-andrew-whitworth-the-nfls-oldest-starting-lineman-continues-to-defy-odds/


From the man's own mouth.

This is why know one has any confidence in our owner and front office. How do you not keep Whitworth even if you didn't want to get in a bidding war with other teams they could have used the franchise tag. Its stupid shit like this that gives me no hope.

(12-15-2017, 07:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Put me in the group that thought the D was gonna be a top 1/3 of the league unit.

Big Whit should have retired a Bengal.

Yep Whit deserved it. 

Was a class act here while being a true leader and great player as well.

   

(12-19-2017, 11:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: https://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/16/rams-tackle-andrew-whitworth-the-nfls-oldest-starting-lineman-continues-to-defy-odds/


From the man's own mouth.

Just sad

(12-16-2017, 10:57 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Guys, guys, hey guys??

... What if Whitworth and Zeitler never intended to come back here? 

This smells of reality.  I couldn't believe what the Falcons paid for Sanu, but looking back they knew how to get more out of him.  The Lions paid a ton for Marvin Jones.  I couldn't believe Jones would want to give up the situation of being opposite AJ Green and having single coverage all day long.  But, he wanted out as well.

I know the easy target is the Bengal's brass, but I think some of this has to fall on the coaches.  Players aren't dumb and when they see their coaches not be able to prepare a two-minute drill with 15 years to learn one, or simply have lame game plans/plays, etc. they more than likely realize they don't have a realistic shot at winning.

Whit said something about the Rams having energy and liked their young, creative coach.  He saw something when everyone else saw a team that had a bust of a pick at QB.  

Some of this has to fall on the coaches, and that is why I don't want a single coach back.  Blow it up.  Give the new HC the opportunity to build his own staff.  

I wanted Haley until I saw a post from someone (Nately?) about what a crapbag that guy is in life outside of football.  My dream is they find the next Sam Wyche:  innovative, yet disciplined and balls as big as church bells.  Will they find it?  No.  The next coach will be Guenther or Simmons and nothing will change.  

(12-16-2017, 11:11 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's the element that often gets overlooked around here IMHO. 

We say the Bengals "let" this one walk that one walk. I'd speculate there's been several that were walking no matter what they were offered here.

Who wants their NFL career highlights to be "and here's a really good player who spent his time on a mediocre team making mediocre attempts at winning but, if he'd only been on a better team"

Well, z went to the browns..... and Jones went to the nfc equivalency of the bengals so i think it has more to do with something else than being stuck on a mediocre team tbh.

That epic loss to the Steelers In the playoffs had to have left a nasty taste in some players mouths. And this is just one example of probably a ton that we don't even know about that happens behind the scene. (I am assuming here)

 It just seems like the bengals are back to being that team that players can't wait to leave. 

(12-15-2017, 07:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Put me in the group that thought the D was gonna be a top 1/3 of the league unit.

Big Whit should have retired a Bengal.

I was in the same boat

I really hope the Rams can pull this out and get Whit a ring, the man deserves it. This team deserves everything that is happening for letting the only two good linemen from a really shitty oline walk away.

(12-15-2017, 08:15 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah, I have never waffled that I didn't value Zeitler at that $, and it had nothing to do with his position. He's being paid as tied for the 5th best OL in the NFL. Rather than Zeitler at $12m/yr, Alex Mack is making $9m/yr and they could have easily gone after him before the '16 season.

Heck, just this offseason you could have had Joel Bitonio for $8.5m/yr, or JC Tretter for $5.6m/yr, and both of those guys would be huge upgrades to the current line. I would take both of them for $14.1m/yr over Zeitler's $12m/yr.

Instead you get Ogbuehi, Bodine, and the gang...

There were definately lots of ways to go and you nailed a few of them rather than re-signing Zeit for that amount.

Like you said, could of gotten 2 O-lineman for just a little over the amount Zeit got. Then offer Whit the same he was
offered from the Rams instead of low balling him. There were lots who claim we low balled Zeit but in the end Whit
was the one we really low balled as you quote later in this thread.

If we made these moves we would not be in this boat. Who is to know the Rams would be this good without Whit.

(12-16-2017, 11:58 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agree with you about Whitworth, he's got a legitimate shot at playing deep into the playoffs, or possibly even the Superbowl this year.  Much better than what his prospects would have been with the Bengals this year.

Also agree on Jones/Sanu.  Players can't control who drafts them, that is just a simple fact.  However, they can control some things after that rookie contract is completed.  I guess some fans can't get over the fact that some players don't see Cincinnati as a dream career destination. 

Eh, i usually always agree with you but the Bengals have been a winning team for awhile before last season.

Not like the Rams and of course the Browns were career destinations either.

The Rams just showed up this year and i will argue a lot of that has to do with the LT on Goff's blindside...

(12-16-2017, 01:27 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I think if the Bengals would have matched the offer from the Rams that Whitworth would have stayed. I could be wrong on that, but I think he really does love the city and would've stayed. The way the team handled Zeitler blows my mind. You drafted him with the plan of not re-signing him. What in the actual ****? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

The story with Jones still kills me. They went to bed thinking they had an agreement with him and were going to finish up in the morning. Then he signed with the Lions while the Bengals slept. Seriously, if he was that important to bring back, why would you break off talks to get some sleep without a signed contract in hand? Our front office can be a joke at times.

Agreed on Whit, disagree on Zeitler and MLJ.

I don't think either one is worth what they got paid. But undervaluing the interior O-line is extremely stupid for sure.

(12-19-2017, 11:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: https://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/16/rams-tackle-andrew-whitworth-the-nfls-oldest-starting-lineman-continues-to-defy-odds/


From the man's own mouth.

This is what blows my mind. The one man they should of been loyal to, they lowball.