re: The draft - The one thing we cannot do is reach for any position. We need to take a player that will be a sure upgrade.

We're not 1 or 2 players away. We need to start accumulating talent again.

(12-19-2017, 04:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: But, Dalton is ranked 21st in the much more objective and non-bulshit NFL QB rating among QBs who've thrown at least 200 passes this season. Not much better, to be sure, but it at least it's not hinged upon one of the most bullshittiest bullshit statistical category.

Interestingly enough, Dalton is tied for 10th in the league in TD passes thrown. 

With that said, I'm not opposed to drafting a QB; as long as the potential of said QB is BETTER than Dalton.

A lot of that has to do with having such a terrible run game.
Between Mixon, Bernard, and Hill there has been a total of five rushing TDs.

2 high round OT

high round mlb

Mid round safety

Mid round center

Mid round guard.

No clue how we pull this off either.

(12-19-2017, 04:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A lot of that has to do with having such a terrible run game.
Between Mixon, Bernard, and Hill there has been a total of five rushing TDs.

I'll be honest. I was shocked when I saw that. He only has 21 TDs with only 2 games to go, yet the offense has struggled much of this season in a variety of ways. If it's not the offensive line sucking, it's the receivers not getting open, or it's Dalton making stupid decisions or poor playcalling or a combination of all these things.

(12-18-2017, 11:38 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: I'm your opinion what is our biggest need on draft day? Assuming we get a coach that is allowed to draft the guys he wants without Mikey screwing it up. Hopefully, he gives him the keys to the lumina, and allow him to sign free agents as well. I tried to make this a poll question, but when I select poll. Nothing changes, much like the bungles.

1. Offensive tackle- ced sucks and the justly is still out on fisher he could be the answer but probably not. Plus we could possibly sign a fa and draft a center late to get rid of bodine.

2. Cornerback- Jackson dre and denard look fine but paceman is 34 and can no longer play the way he used to. If we get the right trade for mccarron we could draft one in the 2nd or 3rd round

3. De I like johnson, but dude is getting old and has lost a step he's a great player but he rarely gets pressure on the we anymore

4. Safety- sure iloka is good but he could really use some help. When we had n loan out secondary was dominant. Iloka is more of the help guy rather than the man we could use another great safety

5. Quarterback- yes I know we have 3 time pro bowler Mandy but this is a qb heavy draft and we will have a top 10 pick. If the right guy is there you draft him. Mandy will get his chances to prove he's still the guy but a new head coach will not let him sit there and throw bad pass after bad pass like he's continued to do. He's a great guy but that doesn't translate to a winning qb. I know it's not all his fault because our line blows but if would be nice to have a qb in waiting so if Mandy doesn't play to expectations you go to the next guy.

6. Wide receiver- I know we have 50 of them but we gotta see what ross brings to the table. I'm not ready to label him a bust yet but whatever coach comes in has to get him on the field and see what he can do. Lafell is not the answer neither is Boyd. It's yet to be determined what will happen with eiffert the only way he will be resigned is if it's for a box of cracker jacks. He it will take him a while to get back to his old self. Kraft is serviceable but maybe you let eiffert walk and take a te/we in rounds 4-7 we found Marvin Jones in round 5 and he wasn't too bad.

All that said my bengal friends what do we need to draft first assuming we do the norm and nothing I'm fa. I am optimistic that the new coach will have more leeway as he will demand things like that if Mikey wants a good coach. What are your thoughts about what we need and do you agree or disagree and is there a snowballs chance in hell Mikey will allow the new head coach to actually call the shots? In Mikey's open letter to the fans he said he will do what it takes to win, will he stand by that?

Center is still very much needed and we need to draft one early, 2nd round or even trade up in the first and grab Billy Price.

All this depends on FA as you mention, need an O-lineman in FA to help open up the draft and it is very obvious.

I think that the Bengals need an impact player like a DE or LB in the first round and then look at several Oline (excellent Oline talent can be had in rounds 2 and after) picks, safety, CB, and RB

We need all we can get!

Round 1 best guard center available trade down to acquire 1 more late 2nd rounder
round 2 A best Guard or center available
Round 2 B best Guard or Center available
Round 2 C Trading AJ Mccarron QB
Round 3 Safety
Round 4 Kicker
Rest of draft draft best player available

(12-19-2017, 01:39 AM)TKUHL Wrote: I really think the time is now to move on from Dalton. He's on a team friendly deal for a reason. If we get a new (not from within) coach then yes move on. The way I see it is A. Take the best available QB and then draft linemen in the 2nd and 3rd to get some playing time with Dalton for 1 year or B. Draft linemen in the First and second, see what you can get for Dalton and Start AJ and draft a QB in the 4th/5th RD. At this point I really don't care if both our QB's are open for trade.

QB Driskel might surprise a lot of people given a real chance.

(12-19-2017, 04:14 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'll be honest. I was shocked when I saw that. He only has 21 TDs with only 2 games to go, yet the offense has struggled much of this season in a variety of ways. If it's not the offensive line sucking, it's the receivers not getting open, or it's Dalton making stupid decisions or poor playcalling or a combination of all these things.

I think it's a domino effect.
Whether it was intended or not, this OL is really bad at getting push in the run game. This blocking scheme always seemed more passive than aggressive, which is why I'm not sure if this is intended.
It doesn't help that the OL has also been bad in pass protection too.
Because of the sieve at OL, the running game struggles to get going and Dalton is now looking to throw quickly or bail out of the pocket quickly.
Because of how quickly Dalton is having to get rid of the ball, the receivers are struggling to get open. Most WRs cannot get open within a couple seconds.
Playcalling has also been designed to mask the struggles of the OL. The playcalling seems to be prioritized around screens, slants, and other short-to-intermediate routes.
All in all, it's a recipe for disaster.

(12-20-2017, 11:04 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I think it's a domino effect.
Whether it was intended or not, this OL is really bad at getting push in the run game. This blocking scheme always seemed more passive than aggressive, which is why I'm not sure if this is intended.
It doesn't help that the OL has also been bad in pass protection too.
Because of the sieve at OL, the running game struggles to get going and Dalton is now looking to throw quickly or bail out of the pocket quickly.
Because of how quickly Dalton is having to get rid of the ball, the receivers are struggling to get open. Most WRs cannot get open within a couple seconds.
Playcalling has also been designed to mask the struggles of the OL. The playcalling seems to be prioritized around screens, slants, and other short-to-intermediate routes.
All in all, it's a recipe for disaster.

This is a 100% correct statement.

(12-19-2017, 12:04 AM)McC Wrote: I agree about S, though.  A ball hawking FS is a big need.

I know we need a T and C but we desperately need a ball hawk FS, Iloka is not a ball hawk or any help in run support. I hardly ever see him meet a ball carrier head on mostly arm tackling or chasing from behind ala Maulaluga ?. If James from FSU is there maybe we can get a free agent T and still draft a T and C in rounds 2&3 

I think this is the first time in the Dalton /Green era I can say the best player available no matter what the position. 

We just need quality full stop....if that means a great talent at QB falls to us then I'd still be tempted to pull the trigger.

If need and BPA fell together than the best OLine in Rd1 or failing that the best LB or safety.

I really hope we do not try and be too cute - I'm not so convinced we are a new HC away from playoffs anymore so we should concentrate on getting some great talent

1. LT
2. C
3. RT
4. RG
5. any other Olineman
6. K
7. S (or whatever)

(12-18-2017, 11:51 PM)Jpoore Wrote: There are 5 different options that I could see us going In the first option and I will rank them accordingly to how I would like to see them. But first off know we shouldn't draft any tackles this year unless it's a 4th round projection like jamarco Jones. There are no great tackles this year but there are next year. 

1. Trade down and draft Billy price the best center/guard in the draft and follow that up by draft in the best guard in the draft I the second round in will hernandez

2. Derwin James fsu. He is just a freak at the position. When I was gonna a watch his tape based on what I'd been hearing I was expecting to see Kam chancellor type. But when u watch his tape their is only 1 true comparison. The late great sean taylor. He plays just like him.At 6"3 223 pounds James is the te guarding safety we need, as well as can play lb, CB and de.

3. Bradley Chubb de nc state  if he falls is a no brainier. De is a slight need not big at all bc we have Lawson and if we sign Smith again then we have 4 starting quality players in Dunlap, Willis, Lawson,Smith., but Chubb is a absolute monster in the run and pass. Reminds me a lot of Joey bosa.

4. Raquan smith mlb georgia. Dude like Chubb is just a monster and every bit worth of a top 5 pick. Smith along with burcict would be 2 amazing lbs. Dude also didn't miss a tackle all year.

5. Courtland Sutton wr smu. The absolute best wr to come out since aj green and Julio jones. He would also make the perfect complimen to replace aj. Has the same concerns as aj green as well great route runner and same height an weight but lack of top end speed is a question. 

trading down is dangerous....I think Price is slotted to go around #20..???
what if we do trade down for price & a team ahead of us picks him...& we'd have to find a trading partner....
& I don't see Hernandez being on the board at our 2nd rd pick anyway............he should come off the board ???? 20 to  27-ish...??  
so what would you have us do there....???
trade up to get him...???
very risky imo.....

i'd rather pick OG Nelson at #9, it's where he's slotted a lot...... then if you want price so bad we trade up from our 2nd rd slot....but you know how often the Bengals make draft day trades......
so I wouldn't expect it....
I do agree w/ you that those should be our first picks......OG/OC.....just not in the same order...

(12-21-2017, 04:49 PM)Shady Wrote: 1. LT
2. C
3. RT
4. RG
5. any other Olineman
6. K
7. S (or whatever)

not supposed to be a good year for OT's...
but next year is....
I've heard many ppl say this year get our interior 0-line....OG & OC ...
then next year look for OT's....
I agree w/ this plan....
i'd hate for them to draft another 1st rd OT that was really back up material....
we still have 2 of them under contract....Fisher & Ced...

(12-19-2017, 06:31 PM)Derrick Wrote: QB Driskel might surprise a lot of people given a real chance.

I know it will never happen but.....
if we could get a 2nd & a 3rd rd pick for A.D. I would do it....
be 100% positive this way we could draft a quality OG, OC, FS & a LB....

start Driskel & go w/ it....dude just flat out plays....reminds me of Jeff Garcia....good wheels....

get 2 OT's next year....

(12-18-2017, 11:38 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: I'm your opinion what is our biggest need on draft day? Assuming we get a coach that is allowed to draft the guys he wants without Mikey screwing it up. Hopefully, he gives him the keys to the lumina, and allow him to sign free agents as well. I tried to make this a poll question, but when I select poll. Nothing changes, much like the bungles.

1. Offensive tackle- ced sucks and the justly is still out on fisher he could be the answer but probably not. Plus we could possibly sign a fa and draft a center late to get rid of bodine.

2. Cornerback- Jackson dre and denard look fine but paceman is 34 and can no longer play the way he used to. If we get the right trade for mccarron we could draft one in the 2nd or 3rd round

3. De I like johnson, but dude is getting old and has lost a step he's a great player but he rarely gets pressure on the we anymore

4. Safety- sure iloka is good but he could really use some help. When we had n loan out secondary was dominant. Iloka is more of the help guy rather than the man we could use another great safety

5. Quarterback- yes I know we have 3 time pro bowler Mandy but this is a qb heavy draft and we will have a top 10 pick. If the right guy is there you draft him. Mandy will get his chances to prove he's still the guy but a new head coach will not let him sit there and throw bad pass after bad pass like he's continued to do. He's a great guy but that doesn't translate to a winning qb. I know it's not all his fault because our line blows but if would be nice to have a qb in waiting so if Mandy doesn't play to expectations you go to the next guy.

6. Wide receiver- I know we have 50 of them but we gotta see what ross brings to the table. I'm not ready to label him a bust yet but whatever coach comes in has to get him on the field and see what he can do. Lafell is not the answer neither is Boyd. It's yet to be determined what will happen with eiffert the only way he will be resigned is if it's for a box of cracker jacks. He it will take him a while to get back to his old self. Kraft is serviceable but maybe you let eiffert walk and take a te/we in rounds 4-7 we found Marvin Jones in round 5 and he wasn't too bad.

All that said my bengal friends what do we need to draft first assuming we do the norm and nothing I'm fa. I am optimistic that the new coach will have more leeway as he will demand things like that if Mikey wants a good coach. What are your thoughts about what we need and do you agree or disagree and is there a snowballs chance in hell Mikey will allow the new head coach to actually call the shots? In Mikey's open letter to the fans he said he will do what it takes to win, will he stand by that?

Can we draft a new owner??

(12-22-2017, 12:04 AM)Steve Wrote: trading down is dangerous....I think Price is slotted to go around #20..???
what if we do trade down for price & a team ahead of us picks him...& we'd have to find a trading partner....
& I don't see Hernandez being on the board at our 2nd rd pick anyway............he should come off the board ???? 20 to  27-ish...??  
so what would you have us do there....???
trade up to get him...???
very risky imo.....

i'd rather pick OG Nelson at #9, it's where he's slotted a lot...... then if you want price so bad we trade up from our 2nd rd slot....but you know how often the Bengals make draft day trades......
so I wouldn't expect it....
I do agree w/ you that those should be our first picks......OG/OC.....just not in the same order...

This was when we were gonna pick at around 12. Now I think we go bpa which won't be Nelson. It'll be James,Chubb,Fitzpatrick,Smith, etc. Hoping that one of Rankin,price,Hernandez is still in the second.