So here we are last in the NFL in offense, after firing Zampese way back in September. I think the offensive scheme here needs a lot of work regardless, but it would seem Zampese was just a scapegoat.

Ultimately I think we had a personnel problem first, and a coordinator problem second.

The offense did improve a lot after we fired Zampese. We didn't score a TD under him the first 3 games. He dug a massive hole.

Lol, no redemption for Zampese, he sucked. Really.

When Lazor took over, things took an uptick, in a serious way. Not his fault that he had no OL to work with, and players steadily got injured.

(12-19-2017, 10:01 PM)Utts Wrote: So here we are last in the NFL in offense, after firing Zampese way back in September. I think the offensive scheme here needs a lot of work regardless, but it would seem Zampese was just a scapegoat.

Ultimately I think we had a personnel problem first, and a coordinator problem second.

You have selective memory problems.

Hell no. He sucked ballz. We might not have won a game with him.

The offense went from historically putrid to merely terrible.

Yay?

(12-19-2017, 10:05 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The offense did improve a lot after we fired Zampese. We didn't score a TD under him the first 3 games. He dug a massive hole.

(12-19-2017, 10:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Lol, no redemption for Zampese, he sucked.  Really.  

When Lazor took over, things took an uptick, in a serious way.  Not his fault that he had no OL to work with, and players steadily got injured.

(12-19-2017, 10:18 PM)Stewy Wrote: You have selective memory problems.

Yup. Lazor isn't going to make anyone terribly jealous, but he did an okay job for coming in after the season started and having no OL/no non-AJ WRs.

Zampese was just really really bad. Not just how the start of '17 was historically bad, but even in 16 they were pretty awful, despite having Whit and Zeitler. They were also terrible in the redzone, and in scoring in general. The Bengals were the 24th scoring offense in 2016.

Judging the offense off the last 2 games feels awfully silly, considering the entire team has quit now. That's not a Zampese/Lazor thing, that's a Marvin thing.

Lazor may not be the answer at OC but Zampese was just awful all the way around.

The bad part is he was awful last season as well and in typical Bengal fashion nothing was done about it.

Lazer has basically had to create a offense severly limited in guys that can consistently make big plays
The running game has been non existent.
2 big large pieces of the offensive scheme this year combined for 0 tds this yr. EIFERT AND ROSS
When your number 1 TE is Kroft and your number WR is LaFell that's not a recipe for TD explosions

I think it his fair to give Zampese somewhat of a pass. He tried to run the same offense as Hue but the problem was our offense personal wasn't as good as it was during Hue era.

Makes you wonder what Lazor would have done with a line that could actually block.

Not sure how you can claim Lazor is significantly better than Zamp, with the offense last in the league right now. They were both setup to fail, with no offensive line, a glass TE, and no credible #2 WR.

(12-19-2017, 10:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Judging the offense off the last 2 games feels awfully silly, considering the entire team has quit now. That's not a Zampese/Lazor thing, that's a Marvin thing.

Who says I’m judging off the last two games? The offense has consistently been crap all season long. They had a little bump when Zamp was canned, but that was really just going from horrible to barely passable.

Replacing Zamp with Lazor was a “rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic”, move.

(12-20-2017, 12:55 AM)Joelist Wrote: Makes you wonder what Lazor would have done with a line that could actually block.

You nailed it. Before the season started, more than a few of us saw the writing on the wall concerning the ???? around this line. Turned out, it was worse than we could have known. Couple that with the breakdowns against the Packers and Titans, and our season can only be considered the worst since TO and Ocho played celebrity circus that drove Palmer to threaten retirement. Getting rid of Marvin (and Paul Alexander) would be great. I don't know who the right guy for the job might be. I hear Simmons' name come up, and Jay Gruden's. Not sure those guys would inspire the locker room very much. How much money does Belichik want? Brady? LOL

(12-19-2017, 10:01 PM)Utts Wrote: So here we are last in the NFL in offense, after firing Zampese way back in September. I think the offensive scheme here needs a lot of work regardless, but it would seem Zampese was just a scapegoat.

Ultimately I think we had a personnel problem first, and a coordinator problem second.

No, Zampese doesn't get credit because the team he coached through all the training camps still stinks.  If anything some credit to Lasor because you can't throw a whole new play book at them once you are in regular season.  Lasor did some things to at least have them score some, of course 3 wins are against Browns and Colts who everybody scores on. 

I do think other things are to blame, mostly Mike Browns Front Office.   Lets face it, Marvin Jones and Sanu look pretty good and the receivers we brought in so far stink.  Whitworth looks pretty good with Rams and Zeitler also gone, so we have no blocking.  We have the worst blocking in the NFL.  ..Then you add Eifert has been injured 2 straight years, this year worse than last and last was pretty bad. Hill injured.  Eifert and Hill were 2 of the top touchdown scorers in the NFL, you can't even argue that, check the stats.  So you take their touchdowns away, plus Jones and Sanu and often injured Bernard and that's a lot of touchdown players we have lost.  Burkhead is gone.  Mixon has been injured a lot and Ross has been injured so the 2 top picks were not much help.  The picks of Boyd, Core, Malone haven't produced.  Ogbuehi and Fisher have been awful.  ....Once Mike Brown and Front Office made all these AWFUL off season moves in free agency and draft over the years, no coach or playbook will work with no blocking and losing all our best players. 

The question becomes : If this continues, How long before Green and Dalton DEMAND to be traded as Chad and Carson did complaining front office not trying to win.

Does anyone here want Lazor back next year?

(12-19-2017, 10:01 PM)Utts Wrote: So here we are last in the NFL in offense, after firing Zampese way back in September. I think the offensive scheme here needs a lot of work regardless, but it would seem Zampese was just a scapegoat.

Ultimately I think we had a personnel problem first, and a coordinator problem second.

There's been a lot to second guess this season but getting rid of Zamp is absolutely NOT one of them in my opinion.

way out of his depth and to be fair to him he should have never been put in that position.

People say Andy and AJ are too quiet and not demanding enough ....the one time they've shown the slightest bit of revolt and the one thing they've united on after just 2 games was getting rid of Zamp - once I heard that I was comfortable he was not the guy and had to go

(12-20-2017, 06:03 AM)Utts Wrote: Does anyone here want Lazor back next year?

now that's the real question...not should we have kept Zamp!

I honestly don't know whats best and you can make an argument either way. 

It may depend on the HC hire - if its an offensive 'guru' who wants to do things very differently he may go back to QB coach. 

(12-19-2017, 10:43 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Lazor may not be the answer at OC but Zampese was just awful all the way around.

The bad part is he was awful last season as well and in typical Bengal fashion nothing was done about it.

Nailed it.

(12-19-2017, 10:43 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Lazor may not be the answer at OC but Zampese was just awful all the way around.

The bad part is he was awful last season as well and in typical Bengal fashion nothing was done about it.

How many times can you bring in the underling before there is a severe dropoff in quality?