(12-19-2017, 10:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I hope Dalton goes, if only to save his career. He will go elsewhere, be good, and win some postseason games.

No need to chain him to this sunk ship. Give some of these Alaba---"Bengal" fans what they want in 2018. I'll just sit back and watch it all burn, with a beer in my hand.

You say that like Dalton is good lol...what are you smoking??  Dalton aint winning a thing not in Cincy not anywhere.  He stinks. 

Trade Dalton, Start AJ to see what we have in him while he's hopefully a RFA and draft a QB and Oline in the first 4 rounds with the extra picks. I used to be ok with Dalton but he just dosent have IT. He has to have more talent than any team could ever afford to be above average and you still never know what Andy will show up. That's exactly what we are seeing now. I know the line sucks but if we keep Andy there will always be a reason why he can't win Prime time games much less playoff games. Tired of the excuses for why Andy's playing like shit.

Hilarious to me how Dalton was having an MVP season two years ago before injury, then last year we have no running game now the line blows and a new coordinator and everyone wants Dalton gone.

Only in Bengalsland........

Just hope the new coach has the freedom to choose his coaches and QB's.

If we did move on could certainly get a draft pick that would help fix O-line still.

Not going to be popular but would love to see Lamar Jackson get a chance.

He has all the tools just needs to put it all together. Won the Heisman at 19 years of age and is only 20 years old still.

If he does put it together look out.

Fine with Dalton being kept as well and drafting a ton of meat and taters type players.

(12-20-2017, 02:35 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hilarious to me how Dalton was having an MVP season two years ago before injury, then last year we have no running game now the line blows and a new coordinator and everyone wants Dalton gone.

Only in Bengalsland........

What has Dalton done. They can't possibly make it any easier for QB's to succeed in this league. It's rare seeing Dalton pass for more than 300 yards. They won't do anything with Dalton anyway, this franchise is so afraid to make changes in fear of drifting off into the 90's again. We watch teams go from garbage to gold every year just by switching HC's and QB's. We will always be like KC and Smith. If we we've bring in a new from the outside coach and he feels Dalton is not the guy, I hope Mikey lets him make changes.

If you are going to make a change at qb, this is the year to do it.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

Long overdue. We need a reboot at QB. Time to draft someone in the first round. I'm all for keeping Dalton one year to teach him the ropes similar to Carson....but if we can get good draft picks for Dalton then by all means, kick his ass to the curb.

(12-19-2017, 10:02 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: IMO, Dalton has always been and will always be as good as his OC. He is a complete reflection of the OC.

Get a stellar OC and Dalton will be the league MVP.

He had one magical season where he was at least in the conversation, but was still not good enough to be. the league MVP, IMO. He’s a game manager. He’s never going to take a game over, or put the team on his back.

If you want to change the culture around here, A new voice in the huddle is needed.

(12-20-2017, 02:35 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hilarious to me how Dalton was having an MVP season two years ago before injury, then last year we have no running game now the line blows and a new coordinator and everyone wants Dalton gone.

Only in Bengalsland........

It was one magical MVP season, where everything went right. His miserable playoff appearances tell me he's not the guy we want, should we ever make it back there.

(12-20-2017, 01:48 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: yes. lets blame all his shitty throws last week om the online.  especially the pick 6 when he was triple covered

So he threw a pick 6.  Lots of QB's do.

Compare his pick 6 ratio to other current QB's, he has one of the lowest ratios.
I did check---only Brady,Ryan,Flacco,Smith and Rodgers have a better ratio among
QB's with more than 5 years service---better than Cousins,Rivers,Cutler,Carr,Eli,Bradford,
Ben,Carson,Stafford,Gabbert

And we all know Andy never has to rush his throws due to his superior OL pass protection and
the outstanding play calling by Marvin and company.

After the Pittsburgh game, Dalton joined the Steelers in a kneel-down prayer for Ryan Shazier. As a human being, I commend Dalton for his decency and strength of character. As a Cincinnati Bengals fan, it made me just a little bit sick (and I appreciate how awful this makes me sound). Look, you guys gave up a 17-3 halftime lead at home against a heated rival with any shred of playoff hopes on the line. The last thing anyone in this city needs to see is you rushing over to the sidelines to pray with them. Offer some quick condolences, wish Shazier a speedy recovery in your post-game interview, and move on.

Removing talent from the equation for a moment, I think the indictment I have against Dalton that has my patience wearing thin is that he is toothless. In the first few years of Dalton's career, Whitworth always made a point of saying that Dalton needed to take charge of the offense. That he needed to be a leader. Yet we never saw it. Fortunately, we still had Whitworth to hold the reins. But ever since Whitworth left, it has become abundantly clear that Dalton is never going to be the sort of vocal, take-charge kind of leader he needs to be. He's not the kind of QB that can put this team on his back and almost will them to victory. He's not the kind of guy who holds other players responsible for botched plays. He's not the kind of guy that's going to rally the troops on the sidelines. When he throws an interception, whether it's his fault or not, he unstraps his chin strap and trots meekly over to the sideline. Then he stands there with his hands tucked into his pads and with the same glazed-over look on his face. Every single time.

Andy Dalton is a nice guy. I'm not sure that's what I want a QB. I want confidence and a little bit of swagger in my QB. I want a QB who isn't afraid to trade barbs with the Steelers. I want a QB who will hold others accountable for their mistakes (without being a douche about it, mind you). I want a QB with an on-field attitude that says, "We are not losing this ***** game." I want a QB that the guys in the locker room will rally behind and a QB that other teams in the league respect and actually worry about. I doubt anybody in this league is worried about having to play Andy Dalton.

Given all of the deficiencies this team has (not active in bringing free agents in, letting their own free agents walk, not putting long-term value in the offensive line), it's becoming more and more apparent to me that a game-managing QB like Dalton simply isn't going to cut it here. Other teams are run in such a way that someone like Dalton could be plugged in and they'd be able to compete in the playoffs. We are not one of those teams. I know every team wants an elite, big-play QB, but I honestly believe that is the only way we are ever going to see sustained post-season success. If we just luck into an elite QB that can put this team on his back. I've seen great quarterbacks play on shitty teams and still put up incredible numbers. Dalton, meanwhile, is very much the product of whatever offense is put around him. The offense elevates him, not vice versa. I don't think that's enough.

It's easy to say that Dalton has not been put in the best position to succeed. The OL is not the best in the league, Merv's second half "issues" don't help, the lack of an OC that can scheme receivers open, etc, etc.

It doesn't matter. He we are sitting with a top 10 pick, with a fairly deep QB class (especially compared to next year) with the option to spend that pick on either the line or a potential franchise QB for the next 15 years.

If we pick the line and beef it up, maybe Andy is good enough for another couple of failed 9-7, 10-6 seasons, and we never get a shot at that franchise QB because we'll be picking at 20 every season.

If we go QB, maybe we have another bad season, but we could have our guy for the 14 seasons after that. Fix the line in FA, the 2nd and 3rd rounds and we can still have the pieces in place to support a new QB.

Andy is a nice guy, and he flashes enough to keep us excited about him. But he's proven he's not the guy and here's our opportunity for change. Let's take it.

Makes sense to me.

I mean, if you want mediocrity with occasional bright spots, Dalton is your man.

Or, maybe, you want something more?

He has now had 2 full seasons to show whether 2015 was the actual Dalton or an aberration spurred by superior surrounding talent.

With each game, the latter is becoming more and more likely.

(12-19-2017, 10:22 PM)Joelist Wrote: Nope. No drafting a QB until they fix the OL - and I mean REALLY fix it as in a legit Center, legit Guards and legit tackles. This whole "skill players in the early rounds" is a siren song to lure teams away from the reality that champions are built from the lines out and those lines are built from the inside out.

Which one gets you more bang for your buck?

Lets play "guess that offensive line"

Edit: stats are up to October, not current pressures

One line has given up 60 total pressures 

One line has given up 48 total pressures

One line has given up 40 pressures

(12-20-2017, 09:53 AM)bengal kitten uk Wrote: If we go QB, maybe we have another bad season, but we could have our guy for the 14 seasons after that.  Fix the line in FA, the 2nd and 3rd rounds and we can still have the pieces in place to support a new QB.

How often has Mike Brown taken an offensive lineman with a top 10 pick?  I can't imagine it happens very often.  Now granted, the Bengals could always trade down in the first round for more picks, but why use a first round pick on a lineman if you're just going to let the guy walk after five years anyway.  I know the draft is a crapshoot, but use the first round pick on a guy you'd actually want to keep around should he live up to expectations.  Using first round picks on a five-year rental is doing us no favors in the long run.    

You can find linemen in the mid-late rounds that can be developed into quality starters.  You can find guys in free agency.  The future of this team doesn't hinge upon them taking a guard or a center in the top 10 of the draft. A lot of our issues stem from the current coaching staff's inability to draft players that fit our schemes and developing them accordingly. That could easily change if we see a substantial house-cleaning this off-season.  

You've got a top 10 pick in a QB-deep draft.  You've got a new coaching regime coming in.  Andy Dalton's only got a couple of years left on his contract.  You only have so many years of AJ Green's prime left.  If you think there's a guy in this draft class that could be the team's future, I think you have to take him.  Even if you sit him behind Dalton for a year or two.  Because you're right.  We don't know what the QB draft class is going to look like in 2-3 years. And if Dalton is the kind of guy that would let drafting a QB shatter his confidence (as this article implies), then he's not the guy anyway.    

(12-20-2017, 02:35 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hilarious to me how Dalton was having an MVP season two years ago before injury, then last year we have no running game now the line blows and a new coordinator and everyone wants Dalton gone.

Only in Bengalsland........

Dalton compared to your average QB in the NFL per year and the general perception surrounding him in that year. 

2011: average QB Rating, average yards, average TDs, above average INTs, below average Comp %.

But he's a rookie, so it was fine.

2012: average QB Rating, average yards, above average TDs, above average INTs, average Comp %.

But he's still young. There's room to cut down on the INTs.

2013: Average QB Rating, Above average yards, well above average TDs, well above average INTs, average Comp %.

He's a gunslinger, right? Lots of TDs, lots of INTs, average everything else...we can probably win with this right?

2014: Average QB Rating, average yards, below average TDs, above average INTs, above average Comp %.

Okay...a down year...but it's becoming a bit apparent that he needs talent around him to succeed. It works for now, I suppose, but maybe we need to get a new QB at some point...

2015: Elite QB Rating, average yards, above average TDs, extremely low INTs (good thing), elite Comp %.

Whoa!!! He's finally done it! He's transformed into an elite QB. Amazing news! This guy has completely re-invented himself and is a completely changed QB! Super bowl 2016 baby!

2016: Above average QB Rating, Above average yards, below average TDs, extremely low INTs (good thing), above average Comp %.

Alright, well, he had a good year. He lost a lot of weapons, leading to poor touchdown numbers but we're getting there. Let's give him another year.

2017: Average QB Rating, ~average yards, average TDs, average INTs, average Comp %.

Um...what the ****?

In my eyes, Bengals fans were patient in 2011 and 2012, a little weary in 2013, getting pretty sick of it in 2014. Then, in 2015, we had our minds blown and hopes renewed. Then in 2016, we found excuses. Now, in 2017 we are realizing the most likely truth that 2015 was an aberration, not a rule.

When you're in the league for 7 years and only 1 year you can truly call an elite/excellent year, maybe the other 6 years are the real Andy?

Maybe?

Perhaps?

I wish 2015 Andy was real. But the evidence suggests otherwise.

(12-20-2017, 10:14 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Dalton compared to your average QB in the NFL per year and the general perception surrounding him in that year. 

2011: average QB Rating, average yards, average TDs, above average INTs, below average Comp %. But he's a rookie, so it was fine.

2012: average QB Rating, average yards, above average TDs, above average INTs, average Comp %. But he's still young. There's room to cut down on the INTs.

2013: Average QB Rating, Above average yards, well above average TDs, well above average INTs, average Comp %. He's a gunslinger, right? Lots of TDs, lots of INTs, average everything else...we can probably win with this right?

2014: Average QB Rating, average yards, below average TDs, above average INTs, above average Comp %. Okay...a down year...but it's becoming a bit apparent that he needs talent around him to succeed. It works for now, I suppose, but maybe we need to get a new QB at some point...

2015: Elite QB Rating, average yards, above average TDs, extremely low INTs (good thing), elite Comp %. Whoa!!! He's finally done it! He's transformed into an elite QB. Amazing news! This guy has completely re-invented himself and is a completely changed QB! Super bowl 2016 baby!

2016: Above average QB Rating, Above average yards, below average TDs, extremely low INTs (good thing), above average Comp %. Alright, well, he had a good year. He lost a lot of weapons, leading to poor touchdown numbers but we're getting there. Let's give him another year.

2017: Average QB Rating, ~average yards, average TDs, average INTs, average Comp %. Um...what the ****?

In my eyes, Bengals fans were patient in 2011 and 2012, a little weary in 2013, getting pretty sick of it in 2014. Then, in 2015, we had our minds blown and hopes renewed. Then in 2016, we found excuses. Now, in 2017 we are realizing the most likely truth that 2015 was an aberration, not a rule.

When you're in the league for 7 years and only 1 year you can truly call an elite/excellent year, maybe the other 6 years are the real Andy?

Maybe?

Perhaps?

I wish 2015 Andy was real. But the evidence suggests otherwise.

Add to the fact that the O-line from 2011-2015 was always ranked in the top 10 in pass blocking, you'll have a hard time blaming the line for his protection. The running attack has not been PAs expertise since he's been here (at least from a stats perspective), so that's really nothing new. 

What's wrong with a competition?