(12-21-2017, 08:35 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks like stats until they no longer support their opinion. 

I will say Dalton is not bad; however, I will also say he is easily replaceable.

I remember when Marvin Jones and Mo Sanu were 'easily replaceable'

(12-21-2017, 02:00 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I remember when Marvin Jones and Mo Sanu were 'easily replaceable'

I 'member!

(12-21-2017, 01:27 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: It’s relevant because it fits what you’re arguing. Likewise, critiquing his bad play regardless of if team quit or not fits other people’s narrative. Everyone has their opinions on him and there’s plenty of ammo to support both is all I’m saying

Fair enough. Bfine was basically calling me a hypocrite and I just responded in kind. We're all guilty of using whatever ammo helps our stance, and that's not limited to myself and other "Dalton defender's".

The team did quit though. 

(12-21-2017, 02:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fair enough. Bfine was basically calling me a hypocrite and I just responded in kind. We're all guilty of using whatever ammo helps our stance, and that's not limited to myself and other "Dalton defender's".

The team did quit though. 

Not arguing that they quit   They clearly did. And a small part of me wishes that AD would of took AJ's route and in a professional way call his guys out/lead this team when they need it the absolute most. 

(12-21-2017, 03:21 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Not arguing that they quit   They clearly did. And a small part of me wishes that AD would of took AJ's route and in a professional way call his guys out/lead this team when they need it the absolute most. 

Fair criticism. AJ has showed some serious leadership this year. Dalton looks frustrated, but has yet to speak out. Quitting should not be tolerated.

I think Dalton' time here should be over too but not because I agree with the broken records who can't stop going on and on about him sukking.

His time here should be over because he has served his sentence and expecting a player to stay here beyond seven years is cruel and unusual punishment.

(12-21-2017, 12:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is true. For example, I didn't see you bringing up passer rating rankings for several weeks. 

Now that Dalton has fallen 7-8 spots over the last couple weeks (when the consensus from non-Dalton haters is that the team quit), suddenly we should talk about his ranking.

We should talk about his rating at any time we like.

I' pretty sure I commended Andy on his play just a couple weeks back stating that he had been performing well and dispelling the myth that no QB could play well behind this line. I was assured at that point that it wasn't the QB play that changed, in was the oline play.

Let me guess: The oline play has changed again.

(12-21-2017, 04:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We should talk about his rating at any time we like.

I' pretty sure I commended Andy on his play just a couple weeks back stating that he had been performing well and dispelling the myth that no QB could play well behind this line. I was assured at that point that it wasn't the QB play that changed, in was the oline play.

Let me guess: The oline play has changed again.

Well.....they faced a very good defense in Minny.....but they couldn't block a bunch of practice squad pickups against Chicago.  Sometimes people just have bad games.

(12-21-2017, 02:02 AM)bengalsfansince93 Wrote: He's bad. sorry. you can twist turn it whatever way you want.  If you truly believe he is good that's your opinion.  But you are wrong

Winning record as a starting QB, career QB rating that's a little more than a point under 90 (and that's including this season), a 163-92 TD-INT ratio = my opinion that he's good.

He's bad = fact because of                                                                                                       .

The fact is, he's a good QB. He's shown flashes of greatness and he's shown flashes of complete ineptitude, but overall, he's a good QB. He's not great, but he's also not bad. He's good. The only argument against him being good is from people who have "watched him play" or by some other nonquantifiable measure.

Too many good QBs in this year's draft. We wouldn't get much for Dalton in trade. Unless we do something in FA this year (and we won't), we need to draft Olinemen in the first 4 rounds. Boling is the only OL worth keeping. Our new HC might want to take Lamar Jackson and rebuild around him, and I'd be ecstatic about that. Again, that would mean signing a damn good LT in FA.

(12-21-2017, 04:57 PM)Shady Wrote: Too many good QBs in this year's draft. We wouldn't get much for Dalton in trade. Unless we do something in FA this year (and we won't), we need to draft Olinemen in the first 4 rounds. Boling is the only OL worth keeping. Our new HC might want to take Lamar Jackson and rebuild around him, and I'd be ecstatic about that. Again, that would mean signing a damn good LT in FA.

Andy would still get you a lot in fact he will get a lot more than what people expect. Your looking at a proven Qb in the prime of his career vs an unknown player. Andy will be good for the next 5 to 10 years .

(12-21-2017, 03:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  Quitting should not be tolerated.

Especially from your QB. You know i am a Dalton homer but he has really pissed me off lately. I fear he has become "lized". .which is not entirely his fault but still he looks like he doesn't care anymore. I'm not sure he can rebound here.

(12-21-2017, 06:25 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Especially from your QB. You know i am a Dalton homer but he has really pissed me off lately. I fear he has become "lized". .which is not entirely his fault but still he looks like he doesn't care anymore. I'm not sure he can rebound here.

I'm not so mad at him for quitting when the rest of the team has given up. I'm more mad at him for quitting BEFORE then, like when he threw the pass away on 4th down. To me, that's when he quit. I don't like the fact that he quit AT ALL. Whether it was then or during the last game, I want my team to go down fighting the whole time.

With that said, I think he CAN rebound here, but it's going to take a HC that's not going to tolerate ANYTHING less than 100% participation. 

(12-21-2017, 06:38 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not so mad at him for quitting when the rest of the team has given up. I'm more mad at him for quitting BEFORE then, like when he threw the pass away on 4th down. To me, that's when he quit. 

I don't care if he had to throw it into triple coverage.  Try to do SOMETHING.  

(12-21-2017, 06:25 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Especially from your QB. You know i am a Dalton homer but he has really pissed me off lately. I fear he has become "lized". .which is not entirely his fault but still he looks like he doesn't care anymore. I'm not sure he can rebound here.

For a moment, I think he let his frustration get the best of him. In one way, I get why people are pissed about that play. We weren't winning that game either way, but that's not the point. You have to try.

On the other hand though, I view that play like I view Carson's trade demand. Every star Bengals player has their breaking point. 

I will always defend Dalton when people say he sucks or somehow try to pin the last 2 seasons on him, which is laughable IMO...but I don't care if we move on.

I think we could win with or without him and lose with or without him. Our future success depends entirely on the moves this FO makes. Bring in GOOD coaches, fix the line, dump some dead weight and I think we turn it around.

Whether Dalton should be a part of that? I honestly don't know and don't care. We're in a good spot to try someone new, should they decide to do so, although I'm not sure about some of these QBs. I'll trust the next HC, if we hire a good one.

Lamar Jackson worries me. He has the build of someone who would get killed in the NFL. Newton's only survived as long as he has because he's built like a linebacker.

if we bring up how good Dalton is because of his regular season rating, does it go both ways, considering how terrible his rating is in the playoffs. im ready to move on , we have seen 7 years of this.

(12-21-2017, 06:38 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not so mad at him for quitting when the rest of the team has given up. I'm more mad at him for quitting BEFORE then, like when he threw the pass away on 4th down. To me, that's when he quit. I don't like the fact that he quit AT ALL. Whether it was then or during the last game, I want my team to go down fighting the whole time.

With that said, I think he CAN rebound here, but it's going to take a HC that's not going to tolerate ANYTHING less than 100% participation. 

You absolutely give him a shot behind new coaching, try to get something for AJM and draft a QB in the first. I like Jackson because he's a threat to run and behind this line we could use that.

(12-21-2017, 07:14 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Lamar Jackson worries me.  He has the build of someone who would get killed in the NFL.  Newton's only survived as long as he has because he's built like a linebacker.

It's a valid concern. He could stand to bulk up a little. Hopefully he knows that. 

(12-21-2017, 07:14 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Lamar Jackson worries me.  He has the build of someone who would get killed in the NFL.  Newton's only survived as long as he has because he's built like a linebacker.

Drafting Lamar Jackson would be the worst decision this organization has made since Akili smith... No. No worse. Worst decision since David klingler. 

We were at least QB desperate when drafting Akili. The klingler pick made no sense, and Boomer was in a similar situation that Dalton is in now. Falling out of favor with the team, drafting in a high spot, etc.

Please don't let us draft a bust