(12-28-2017, 01:07 AM)ah5 Wrote: If you like losing wildcards games, hes grand. 

Are you this clueless as to the state of the team or is it a natural state?

Check out Drew Lock out of Missouri. Good size at 604 but the guy can sling the football. He's shooting up the draft boards after setting the record at SEC at 43tds. He's got a cannon for an arm . In one of his videos he threw it 65 yards in the airhitiing the guy in stride against Georgia. Anyways we can't risk it n need to hit on a q.b. early

(12-28-2017, 03:41 AM)Stewy Wrote: Are you this clueless as to the state of the team or is it a natural state?

Name one time he ever elevated his game in the playoffs.  One.   I am not a Dalton hater but I don't know how anyone can say the jury is not in.

(12-28-2017, 11:17 AM)McC Wrote: Name one time he ever elevated his game in the playoffs.  One.   I am not a Dalton hater but I don't know how anyone can say the jury is not in.

Marvin and Dalton are tied to the hip as perennial choke artists. I like Andy too but I'm all in favor of moving on if we're on a spot to draft a decent QB. 

Andy isn't terrible, but he's replaceable IMO. At the same time, I'd love to see what Andy could do with a decent coaching staff...

Tough call

(12-27-2017, 05:27 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Jackson in the 4th round?

And no sooner. The man just doesn't look like he has a future in the NFL. I think he was a product of gimmicky college offenses, a la Geno smith and Tim Tebow. 

Is Mason Rudolph projected to be available in the 2nd or 3rd round?

any position is up for grabs pretty much including QB in my opinion.

I think its unlikely we get a shot at whoever is considered a rockstar, franchise QB in rd1 ...we have brown, jets, broncos, and maybe Giants looking at QB ahead of us so picking the 4-5th best QB in rd1 is not really an option.

Might be nice to pick a rawer, strong armed option in mid rounds...someone different to Dalton just to increase competition

(12-28-2017, 12:13 PM)sonofstat Wrote: any position is up for grabs pretty much including QB in my opinion.

I think its unlikely we get a shot at whoever is considered a rockstar, franchise QB in rd1 ...we have brown, jets, broncos, and maybe Giants looking at QB ahead of us so picking the 4-5th best QB in rd1 is not really an option.

Might be nice to pick a rawer, strong armed option in mid rounds...someone different to Dalton just to increase competition

Wouldn't surprise me if the Broncos bite on Eli Manning, should Manning leave NY. And I assume they're already throwing in the towel on their first-rounder Paxton Lynch?

  

(12-28-2017, 12:19 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Wouldn't surprise me if the Broncos bite on Eli Manning, should Manning leave NY.  And I assume they're already throwing in the towel on their first-rounder Paxton Lynch?

  

they said Lynch will play this last game

(12-28-2017, 12:13 PM)sonofstat Wrote: any position is up for grabs pretty much including QB in my opinion.

I think its unlikely we get a shot at whoever is considered a rockstar, franchise QB in rd1 ...we have brown, jets, broncos, and maybe Giants looking at QB ahead of us so picking the 4-5th best QB in rd1 is not really an option.

Might be nice to pick a rawer, strong armed option in mid rounds...someone different to Dalton just to increase competition

3 or 4 picks in front of us could very well be QBs. 2 or 3 could be OL. 

Personally, I would like to finally pick up a DL guy like Chubb or Payne. Lock that line down and get some of our aging guys in a rotation. Target guys in the 2-5 rounds to fix the OL in the long-term and use our freaking open cap space to fix the OL in the short-term. Because, honestly, whoever we pick on OL isn't going to be ready for 2-4 years. Pick up a couple free agent OL, roll with Andy and see what happens. If he can't produce behind a good line, then address that in 2019 when the long-term OL fixes are ready to play.

Dalton is not the biggest problem on this team. We need a better o-line.

(12-28-2017, 01:44 PM)GreenDragon Wrote: Dalton is not the biggest problem on this team. We need a better o-line.

What does he do positive. He is the product of the system nothing more

Heck, why waste a draft pick on a QB when there's J P Football just wasting away in some bar in Texas? Heck, Mikey could have a bar built in the locker room AND have another reclaimation project and give him a 43rd chance!   We might even get some diehard Browns fans to become Bungled fans.. At minimum he'd sell tickets to out of town fans of other teams. 

(12-28-2017, 02:05 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: What does he do positive. He is the product of the system nothing more

Same could be said for Alex Smith, is Alex Smith a bad option at QB?

(12-26-2017, 09:35 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: In this years draft I don't think we should pass up drafting a QB. Wyoming's Josh Allen has a skill set different from any qb in this draft. He has GREAT pocket awareness. Something Andy lacks. He also has a cannon arm and isn't afraid to trust his receivers, he's a gunslinger, unlike Andy. This could be our future QB  that we should not pass up. We need to groom someone now behind Andy and let Andy start until he loses the job. We should draft Allen in the late first or 2nd. To me he looks like a mix between Ben Roethlisberger, and Phillip River with Brett Favres arm. Very fun to watch. Out of all QB's Allen has caught my eye the most. This guy would get us over the hump in the playoffs. He's a winner and talks to his teammates. I would actually take this guy with our top 10 pick if he is ranked that high in the draft..If we are taking a lineman in the 1st Round it had better be Orlando Brown if anyone. Orlando is a good tackle but not a great one, but he would be our best option if we took a lineman. I would not pass up on Allen he looks like a franchise QB that we can be forsure about.

https://youtu.be/QTuKHNz9vbA

Dalton isn't a bad QB, but he is far from elite and we know what he is at this point in his career.  I'd love for us to get a QB for the future with upside.  Dalton can still be our QB next season, and let the new QB learn....I personally find it hard not to jump at a guy with Franchise potential.  Dalton is good, but not a Franchise caliber guy.

(12-28-2017, 11:59 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Marvin and Dalton are tied to the hip as perennial choke artists. I like Andy too but I'm all in favor of moving on if we're on a spot to draft a decent QB. 

Andy isn't terrible, but he's replaceable IMO. At the same time, I'd love to see what Andy could do with a decent coaching staff...

Tough call

This logic has always been so frustrating to me. Dalton is a player, right? We've had a crap ton of players choke or outright disappear under Marvin, correct? Now why do people act like Dalton is supposed to be immune to that? To rise above it when no one else does? It makes absolutely zero sense. If the system is predictable and playoff caliber teams can stop it in the playoffs, how is that Dalton's fault? Kitna, Palmer and McCarron were all considered top flight backups or serviceable starters at the very least, and all of them played like ass in the playoffs. That's why I think it's a system/schematic/coaching issue.

Sorry, I'm not aiming this at you so much as the (popular) idea that Dalton is on the same level as Marv as far as blame goes. If we truly believe Marv is the issue, then he would be affecting Dalton's play as well.

Like I've been saying, I'm indifferent on bringing Dalton back or drafting a Baker Mayfield. I do know that this franchise has a LOT to fix if they're going to ever contend for championships...regardless of who the QB is. 

Just remember, never in the history of professional football has a great college player ever failed..
Oh wait..a few have and it's always been Marvin's fault..  
No, I say we do like Shakespeare suggested and first kill all the lawyers.. Well, at least one..

(12-28-2017, 09:13 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Check out Drew Lock out of Missouri.   Good size at 604 but the guy can sling the football. He's shooting up the draft boards after setting the record at SEC at 43tds. He's got a cannon for an arm . In one of his videos he threw it 65 yards in the airhitiing the guy in stride against Georgia.  Anyways we can't risk it n need to hit on a q.b. early

604?  Wow, even legendary fat QB, Jared Lorenzen, was only 315 at his heaviest.  Wow, I'm sold!

(12-28-2017, 02:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This logic has always been so frustrating to me. Dalton is a player, right? We've had a crap ton of players choke or outright disappear under Marvin, correct? Now why do people act like Dalton is supposed to be immune to that? To rise above it when no one else does? It makes absolutely zero sense. If the system is predictable and playoff caliber teams can stop it in the playoffs, how is that Dalton's fault? Kitna, Palmer and McCarron were all considered top flight backups or serviceable starters at the very least, and all of them played like ass in the playoffs. That's why I think it's a system/schematic/coaching issue.

Sorry, I'm not aiming this at you so much as the (popular) idea that Dalton is on the same level as Marv as far as blame goes. If we truly believe Marv is the issue, then he would be affecting Dalton's play as well.

Like I've been saying, I'm indifferent on bringing Dalton back or drafting a Baker Mayfield. I do know that this franchise has a LOT to fix if they're going to ever contend for championships...regardless of who the QB is. 

Very well said. And I agree 100%

(12-28-2017, 02:17 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Same could be said for Alex Smith, is Alex Smith a bad option at QB?

Well, they did draft Patrick Mahomes...