(12-28-2017, 02:11 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Doesn't Josh Allen have absolutely hideous numbers? Yeah I get it, he looks the part. Big with big arm. No touch though. Project. Is this a Brock Osweiler or Paxton Lynch type of guy? Seems like a Broncos type of QB. I've talked myself into being "okay" with Baker Mayfield, should we take a QB. Gotta get this line fixed though.

I dunno if he's a project....I think he's a guy you let learn behind an established vet and address some mechanics.  Remember where Carson Wentz came from.   Plus, Allen is playing in a pro style offense instead of the read option bullshit.  I'd ship McCarron and draft this kid as the backup with potential to supplant Dalton.....if the draft position is right.

Here is his walterreport:

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018JAllen.php

(12-28-2017, 10:03 AM)Wyche Wrote: Late 2nd, early 3rd for me.  He had a good season last year.  

Pass on Manziel 2.0.

The raw talent is there with Allen, but who knows how good of coaching he's getting at Wyoming.  Besides, weren't the Cowboys 4-8, 2-10 the years before he became the starter?

Nothing about him is Manziel 2.0

Manziel couldn't play within the structure of the offense. 
Baker thrives in the structure of the offense. 

Fun fact: Baker Mayfield had an 8% target dropped pass rate in 2017. He was already completing 70% of his passes. 
Fun fact: Josh Allen had a 4.8% target dropped pass rate in 2017. He was completing 57% of his passes. 

(12-28-2017, 01:15 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote:
Nothing about him is Manziel 2.0

Manziel couldn't play within the structure of the offense. 
Baker thrives in the structure of the offense. 

Fun fact: Baker Mayfield had an 8% target dropped pass rate in 2017. He was already completing 70% of his passes. 
Fun fact: Josh Allen had a 4.8% target dropped pass rate in 2017. He was completing 57% of his passes. 

I dunno man, his maturity issues put me in the mind of Fartball quite a bit....although admittedly not as bad.

If you take Mayfield, you HAVE to take him in the first round, if he makes it to you.  Now we're back to square one concerning oline.

All I'm saying is that if Allen makes it to you rd 2 or 3, I don't see how you pass that up as a potential heir....or serviceable backup at worst.

(12-28-2017, 03:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: I dunno man, his maturity issues put me in the mind of Fartball quite a bit....although admittedly not as bad.

If you take Mayfield, you HAVE to take him in the first round, if he makes it to you.  Now we're back to square one concerning oline.

All I'm saying is that if Allen makes it to you rd 2 or 3, I don't see how you pass that up as a potential heir....or serviceable backup at worst.

Because you have greater needs than him?
Baker profiles as a legit starter. Good arm. Strong field leader. Pinpoint accurate. works in and out of the pocket.
From the Player's Tribune: 



Allen looks like a guy that gets every chance because he's big, athletic, strong armed and white. 
But he lacks the actual good components to being a top NFL QB. Footwork, patience, touch, placement...kinda like a little ginger QB we have now but probably worse. 
Maybe I'll be wrong but I used to fall for the Allen types (glares menacingly at Gabbert) and I don't want to make that mistake again. 

(12-28-2017, 04:05 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Because you have greater needs than him?
Baker profiles as a legit starter. Good arm. Strong field leader. Pinpoint accurate. works in and out of the pocket.
From the Player's Tribune: 



Allen looks like a guy that gets every chance because he's big, athletic, strong armed and white. 
But he lacks the actual good components to being a top NFL QB. Footwork, patience, touch, placement...kinda like a little ginger QB we have now but probably worse. 
Maybe I'll be wrong but I used to fall for the Allen types (glares menacingly at Gabbert) and I don't want to make that mistake again. 

Like I said, if Mayfield is there, you about have to take him.  I wouldn't hate it, but I have my reservations about THIS particular organization growing him past his maturity issues....in fact, we usually tend to make those situations worse.  Still, if he's there, and we take him, who's gonna block for him?  FA?  Pipe dream, and we all know it.

A lot of people had doubts about Carson Wentz too......what color is his hair?

(BTW, I can't see your pic....fuggin new work firewalls.....grrrr)

FWIW....don't play that cause he's white on me....I wanted Bridgewater (eh?) and Deshaun Watson.

(12-28-2017, 04:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: Like I said, if Mayfield is there, you about have to take him.  I wouldn't hate it, but I have my reservations about THIS particular organization growing him past his maturity issues....in fact, we usually tend to make those situations worse.  Still, if he's there, and we take him, who's gonna block for him?  FA?  Pipe dream, and we all know it.

A lot of people had doubts about Carson Wentz too......what color is his hair?

(BTW, I can't see your pic....fuggin new work firewalls.....grrrr)

FWIW....don't play that cause he's white on me....I wanted Bridgewater (eh?) and Deshaun Watson.

Not playing it on you, playing it on the hype surrounding Allen. Sorry if it came off that way. You know I'm not THAT guy...
He's inferior in almost every category except size to Lamar Jackson. 
Probably a push on arm strength. 
Lamar completes more passes for more yards and a better TD:INT ratio while his WR drop over 8% of targets. 
Yet Lamar "might have to move"

Im just overall sick of shitty white QBs getting some dumb pass for being bad at football. To me, Allen is one of them.
If I'm gonna take a big QB to groom as a potential back up, give me Ferguson from Memphis in like the 6th. 

If you don't trade both AJM and Andy, you play one of them for a year. Let them get beat up while the OL rebuilds. 

(12-28-2017, 08:23 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Not playing it on you, playing it on the hype surrounding Allen. Sorry if it came off that way. You know I'm not THAT guy...
He's inferior in almost every category except size to Lamar Jackson. 
Probably a push on arm strength. 
Lamar completes more passes for more yards and a better TD:INT ratio while his WR drop over 8% of targets. 
Yet Lamar "might have to move"

Im just overall sick of shitty white QBs getting some dumb pass for being bad at football. To me, Allen is one of them.
If I'm gonna take a big QB to groom as a potential back up, give me Ferguson from Memphis in like the 6th. 

If you don't trade both AJM and Andy, you play one of them for a year. Let them get beat up while the OL rebuilds. 

I gotcha man.....thanks for clarifying.

I'd be interested in Ferguson for that role......and I don't Lamar should have to move.  I think both he, and Allen, have a moderately high ceiling if they're coached right.  

BEST.

In the board's opinion: What is his best attribute ON the football field?

NOTE: Please do your best to keep this on topic and discussing Andy's best ability.


I think he's really good BEFORE the snap. I think he does a good job reading what the defense is going to do pre-snap and I've heard coaches and announces talk about this over the years, so, I'll go with that.

Quick release. /thread

But I do think you hit on something in orange. Over my time on this board I’ve come to the conclusion at least part of the reason so many here like Dalton so much is because of the kind of guy he is off the field. His charity, personality, religion, etc. Just my opinion. I’m sure most of his ardent supporters will tell me that’s not the case.

In my best Marvin Impression:

"He puts us in position to have a chance to win the game at the end of the game."

He is a decent QB who willingly plays for the Mike Brown-era Cincinnati Bengals.

I dont think he will cost you the game........is that called a game manager?

(12-29-2017, 01:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Quick release. /thread

But I do think you hit on something in orange. Over my time on this board I’ve come to the conclusion at least part of the reason so many here like Dalton so much is because of the kind of guy he is off the field. His charity, personality, religion, etc. Just my opinion. I’m sure most of his ardent supporters will tell me that’s not the case.

Quick release. Nice!

Although, I've always wondered, does Andy Dalton have a quick release throw (fast movement from A to B) or is he coached/plays are designed to throw it quickly in terms of time after snap. Or, are the plays mostly shorter routes and, therefore, it doesn't take time for the play to develop so the time with the ball in his hand is naturally short. There's a difference there, right?

And, I agree. He is an A+ human being.

(12-29-2017, 01:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Quick release. /thread

But I do think you hit on something in orange. Over my time on this board I’ve come to the conclusion at least part of the reason so many here like Dalton so much is because of the kind of guy he is off the field. His charity, personality, religion, etc. Just my opinion. I’m sure most of his ardent supporters will tell me that’s not the case.

This. He also makes quick desicions which helps with that release.

As for why I defend Andy it has nothing to do with his off the field I just like that style of QB play. Tom Brady Drew Brees Peyton Manning Matt Ryan even Kirk Cousins. Quick release pocket passers I believe have the best chance at long term success in the NFL.

In this draft my favorite QB is probably Luke Falk.

I like his vision..Although we all know he can get some tunnel vision in crunch time for AJ, Andy spreads the ball around pretty well. Another underestimated attribute he has to me is his leadership. Andy has come in to Cincinnati and shown more determination and grit sometimes than I think many of us ever thought he would show..I lived thru the Akili Smith-Scott Mitchell-Gus Frerrotte-Jeff Blake, horror fests..

Until we know we got someone  who is better, Andy is my guy..

Pre snap ability

Leadership?? I couldn’t disagree more with that one...

https://youtu.be/_358Pi3xWsQ

(12-29-2017, 01:07 PM)PDub80 Wrote: BEST.

In the board's opinion: What is his best attribute ON the football field?

NOTE: Please do your best to keep this on topic and discussing Andy's best ability.


I think he's really good BEFORE the snap. I think he does a good job reading what the defense is going to do pre-snap and I've heard coaches and announces talk about this over the years, so, I'll go with that.

You answered your own question. Dalton is excellent at reading the defense before the snap.

(12-29-2017, 02:16 PM)Air Force 1 Wrote: I like his vision..Although we all know he can get some tunnel vision in crunch time for AJ, Andy spreads the ball around pretty well. Another underestimated attribute he has to me is his leadership. Andy has come in to Cincinnati and shown more determination and grit sometimes than I think many of us ever thought he would show..I lived thru the Akili Smith-Scott Mitchell-Gus Frerrotte-Jeff Blake, horror fests..

Until we know we got someone  who is better, Andy is my guy..

Leadership ability I'm not really sold on. After hearing his pregame speeches and the team's reactions to these gems, I question if he understands that these guys are grown men....

Somehow even less inspiring than ol Marv...